Things that make me go "hmmmm"

[valley]

Hi there! I've been lurking around here for a bit now doing all kinds of research and reading back posts. I have learned SO much. Thank you! But I've also come up with quite a few questions that I can't seem to come to a real good answer on. Hopefully someone can shine a light on things for me. I'll apologize now, this is going to be a bit long.
Here I am with a new obsession and a desire to fully understand it. I have been wandering box stores picking up inexpensive orchids to play with. No need to kill expensive ones while learning right? And I can always give them away later if I need the space. I've ended up with 4 phals, 1 overcrowded/since divided into 4 "mini oncidium", 1 dendrobium, and 2 sad cattleyas. I'll worry more about the specific ID's once I'm sure they'll thrive.

First question, and it's bugging me BAD... The dendrobium is potted really really deep. I was messing with it today because it wasn't drying right and found the cane goes down AT LEAST 1" into the moss. This doesn't seem right... I plan on repotting when the flowers fade. Are the canes going to rot before then? Should I repot now to save the plant? Or is this perfectly normal and I should stop comparing orchids to all my other plants??

Next, I keep seeing references to seasons. My orchids are inside, do they know it's january? Since they are grown under lights could I have two grow areas and keep half blooming by manipulating light schedule and water? Or would that give me angry orchids? I don't want angry orchids.

Phals, oh I'm so confused. Who would have dreamed the most common orchid could give me the worst headache? Are they happier mounted or in pots? I really like mounts, but I don't want to mount these guys if they will hate it. 2 are pretty big creatures, they couldn't get heavy enough to tear their own roots if mounted could they? If grown in a pot is there ever a time when you go "that rootball is too big, I'm going to trim it"? One of the Phals had to be put in a 10" pot! It wouldn't fit in an 8" without damaging the roots. That seems like a BIG pot for an orchid. That same one is sending out either another flower spike or a root. The position says root (below all leaves) but it just doesn't look like a root. It looks like a bud. I'd post a picture but I don't have enough posts yet. Do they ever flower from below the leaves? Isn't 2 weeks after repotting a little quick for a flower spike?? Either way I'm happy. Roots= happy plant right?

On that note, is fast root growth ever a bad thing? The mount I did with the mini oncidiums is putting out what I consider a LOT of roots for 2 weeks. One new root is almost 2" long and there were at least a dozen others going down into the sphag. This is good right?? The leaves still look rough, but better than when I bought the poor thing. Should I see this kind of root growth on all my orchids? Because I'm not. I think I'd notice if a phal put out a root 2/3 the length of the leaves.

Hmmm I had so many more questions when I started this post, but they have slipped my mind... I suppose that's enough of a "book" for tonight anyway. Thanks for taking the time to read it, and thanks in advance for any light you can shine on my confused brain.

[orchids4me]

Hello and welcome to the forum
The Den: it's in a pot right ? You can pick some of the moss away from the canes. I've not seen one buried that deep up the cane before. Or you may have to re pot after its blooms fade and reise it up some in its pot.
The Phal. Roots are good. Most of us lose our roots lol what's your secret???? Lol. In a 8" pot wow after you make 5 posts please show us a pic of this monster!!!!
Onc. Sounds like they are doing wonderful! Keep up what your doing roots like crazy going down into the moss is a good thing.
What's going on exactly with the Cattleyas. That's one you mentioned but didn't get into.
Don't forget pics after 5 posts
Emmaye

[Anton]

I personally would lift the Den out NOW, otherwise as you have mentioned, the cane base, where the "EYES" for new growths reside, may rot.

Mount the Den in a bark mix that is freely draining with the base of the cane where the roots are, sitting at the level of the bark. "OK" you say, but it will fall over." Not if you stake it so that the stake is holding and supporting the cane.

A little trick I do is to get a cube of polystyrene foam, about an inch square, and stick the stake in to that, and put it in the bottom of the pot with the cane attached.

Then fill the pot with a mix of coarse bark and cubes of foam working it around the roots. This way, the stake is held firm, hence the Den cane is too.

If you want, I can supply a pictorial tute on it to show it in more detail. I too made the mistake in the early days of potting the base of the canes too deep and after losing a few, Willowbanks ( who occassionally pops up here and is a Den specialist) put me right and showed me how to do it properly and I have never looked back since.

There have been a few Dens I have bought that were in flower, but potted incorrectly, so I repotted them correctly, albiet carefully, and they continued to flower and have produced new growths every year.

[Daethen]

WELCOME!!! Lots of questions is a good thing. Just make some nonsense responses to your thread to get to the 5 posts because I want to see this monster phal too. Orchids normally grow on trees, so they will do fine mounted but it will take more care on your part. Do not compare orchids to your other plants, for the most part they do not compare. You could manipulate the seasons for your orchids, but they will be healthier and flower better if you give them the seasons they are programmed for. I personally think that you could be getting a spike. Does it look a bit like a mitten? If so, it's a spike and your plant is happy!! NEVER worry about too much root growth. Good luck and by the way, you are addicted and there is no cure.

[valley]

I did pull 2 tight handfulls of moss away from the canes of the den (I hate when they use enough moss for 4 pots in one). I couldn't leave damp moss laying against a cane like that. I know any other plant would rot from that pretty darn quick. If it's not dry in the morning I'll go ahead and repot it. I can live with losing the flowers. Would it be happier if I mounted it? I don't get the feeling it's going to get a lot taller than it's current 18". It wouldn't be too hard to find a good mount that will support it. (And that gives me another excuse to go hiking)
The monster phal is actually in a 10" pot. It needed a 9" but I didn't have one, so it got a little bit of growing room. (yes I'm being super careful with water) The spike/root, most of the roots I'm seeing come out as solid green nubs with maybe a little white sheathing. This is different. It appears to have bud scales (that's what you call'em on trees anyway) where it has obvious layers at the tip. But then again this is the monster, so it may just have super awesome pretty root nubs? The only thing I'm doing that might be helping the roots along is trying to keep everything evenly humid (and never wet). As the top moss dries I'm giving it a real light misting between waterings. My thinking was preventing root rot, but I suppose preventing root rot would promote root growth right? It would be nice if they all grew roots as FAST as the oncidiums have. But that is asking too much from slow growing plants I suppose.
The catts... poor babies. It literally looks like someone beat them and hung'em up wet. The purple one has a whopping 3 sad sad roots less than an inch each. I had to cut the rest off. It has started showing some new growth around the roots though, so I have hope. The burgundy had enough roots but they didn't look right. They looked very much like a plant grown without light. Sluggy white. Plump and firm, but oh so wrong. So I treated both with rooting hormone and put them in a coarse mix until they get healthy enough roots to mount them. Also the burgundy catt has gotten some sort of horrible damage to one leaf (black dry resin on the back of leaf only). I checked it under a hand microscope and scraped it.There's no bugs, but some signs of old injury. I'll wait until the roots are happier before I start removing healthy but unattractive leaves. The front side looks perfect and functional.

Oh I know I'm addicted. Just another to add to my list. Fish, aquatic plants, gardening, indoor plants.... for starters. These are the things that make day to day life brighter. I'm looking forward to the challenge of orchids. It should be even more challenging than aquatic plants. But I know when that first spike shoots up I'm going to be so proud it will be worth every moment of study, care, and frustration. And I'll probably squeal louder and call more people to tell them than when my apongeton crispus shot a flower spike out of the water.

[valley]

Aside from terrestrial orchids (which I have quite a few of) is there any orchid that wouldn't prefer to be mounted if you can give it adequate support and water??

[koshki]

Welcome to Orchid Geeks!

Questions are good, and you are asking good ones!

As for phals, I like mounts, but have not had the nerve to try mounted phals yet. However, the do grow naturally mounted in the wild, with the leaves growing downward, and don't seem to get too heavy for themselves. But they might grow to become unwieldy to water for you. The person around here I know who does best with mounted phals is, of course, Brooke.

I like your idea of starting with NOIDS now, and perhaps give them away later. I've just returned from my monthly OS meeting, and gave away about 6 NOIDS for the raffle table, to make room for some new, more interesting plants. I didn't start out with that intention, but it did end up that way!

[valley]

Thanks Koshki. I think I might just try mounting my most recent phal. Got her for $1, might as well right? If she isn't happy she's small enough to move back to a pot.

And I think this makes 5 posts, let's see if I can put up pics now....

[valley]

Alright, let's see if I can make this work...

1) NOID dend. I started poking around some more and found the poor baby was 3" deep in sphag!!! I pulled out all of it till I saw roots. Maybe it'll dry now.

2) NOID Phal. Had some bud drop when I brought it home (in 16F weather) This is the last bud affected which is why it's a bit less than perfect. The other buds look great.

3)Dend again and mounted mini oncidium. It looked rather rough when I got it but is perking up nicely. No idea what kind of wood it is, some sort of cypress or spruce I think.

4) pile o'chids on a humidity tray. Yes, I know how sad the catts look.

5) The monster phal. It doesn't look that big until you realize it's a 10" pot. There is less than an inch between the roots and the pot!

6) the mystery... is it a spike, root, or keiki?? The plants last flower is on the other side almost exactly opposite this little nub.

By the way, it's not HALF as dark in there as it looks in the pics, I don't know what's up with the camera....

[Daethen]

Hmmmm. Doesn't quite look like what I was expecting out of a spike, but could be or a new growth?

[valley]

Yeah it doesn't quite look like anything I can find pictures of on a phal. And boy have I been searching. At this point I think I may just have to wait until it gets bigger and see.

[valley]

OK... I just noticed something I consider odd. I was watering and misting just now and noticed that one of my sad sad catts (the one with the fewest roots) is putting out new leaf growth. This is a good thing right? I know flowers are bad, but where is the poor plant getting reserves to grow anything but roots right now?

[Daethen]

Is it mounted? Are you sure it isn't doing the root thing?

[valley]

Nope, this is in a pot to recover for a while. 75% of the pot is bark mixture topped with loose packed sphag. I'm pretty new to orchids, but if this is a root I'll eat my shoe. It's got a sheath (or whatever the proper name is) and... and.... oh I'll just take a picture of it later, I can't describe it without comparing it to another plant. I'm trying to break that habit.

(I did go look at it again and noticed it's sad roots don't look so sad as they did when I got it! YAY!)

[Daethen]

I don't mean to imply that what you are looking at is a root, but if it is in bark it may be growing roots you are not aware of. If the others are perking up that is a big plus.

[valley]

I'm so sorry. I was trying to be funny. Sarcasm doesn't always come through right online. I really do appreciate your feedback. It is actually growing a tiny bit in the roots. But just a little and nothing new coming out of the... ummm... base??

And I got a wild hair, I decided I didn't like how long the 10" pot was staying wet and since it was my first repot (and I did mess it up pretty good) I'd redo it with looser medium. While I was at it I took a pic. I had my husband hold it. Keep in mind he is not a small man, 5'11" and near on 200 pounds. But this orchid makes him look more my size. It's getting a good soak and then going back in it's pot. And I still can't tell what that nub coming up from the base is. I'll post a pic when it changes.

[koshki]

Valley, whatever you're doing with that phal, keep doing it, cuz those roots look terrific!

I had a NOID phal send a spike up from under the medium a while back. I thought it was a root at first. Here's the thread: Mayres, this spike is for you!

[Daethen]

I usually love sarcastic humor, but like you say it doesn't always come across. I agree with Katherine, those roots look great. I am not sure what to say on the growth. Looks root, but then it looks like there may be a node. Well, time will tell. Very healthy, happy plant though.

[koshki]

I just went back and re-read your first post, and I'm not sure where that last photo is from...which plant is that growth from?

[valley]

The monster phal. made that weird growth. I found another way under the substrate, so I'm going to lean towards weird looking root. When I finished repotting it (much better this time) it filled that 10" pot and then some. It won't hurt it any to have a root or two hanging out right?? I honestly can't take credit for that phal. I bought it a few weeks ago for $7 off the discount rack because it was out of flower and the pot was cracked. I don't even know what color it is. But I can't wait to find out!

[Daethen]

I would buy phals that looked like that with those roots for $7 all day long. Awesome find.

[PhalPal]

Welcome Valley!!! Something tells me your orchids are going to do just fine for you!!!! I remember being new and curious and all the hours I would spend just staring at my new wonders. Is that new???? NO, it was there yesterday, wasn't it??? NO it's new. I think it's a spike. Maybe it's just a root??? Oh my, back to the internet. Maybe I should buy a book. Which book??? I'm SO confused!!!!!

I love your enthusiasm!!!