Hydroton clay pebbles

[vanda_obsession]

I found a craigslist ad selling about 37 pounds of these pebbles for $40... I have been doing some research and I have been having issues with my orchids having root problems from sphag, bark material that rots and grows fungai, and now that I have them inside all day (cause its too chilly in the mornings when I leave for work to put them out) I have noticed small black flies, bigger that gnats and just as annoying flying around the apartment... and when I picked up a couple of pots of orchids they come out of the potting material!

What are the benefits of the pebbles? Anyone use them?

[psyc1210]

I use only the clay aggregate, pebbles, whatever you want to call it for ALL of my potted orchids. Been using it for 3 years now, and they all seem to do great. My personal opinion is that it is cleaner, doesn't break down, doesn't smell, doesn't attract any gnats, and don't have to repot because of breakdown of the media.

The only downside that I could see is that it dries out faster than other media. I'm fine with that though.

[rcb]

Lot of info in this thread that I started almost a year ago.

LECA as a medium

Have to say I still love it.

[E-Jag]

I can't think of a downside to LECA. It dries faster - much faster - but that just means that it's difficult to over water your plant. It lets plenty of air around the roots and, as mentioned, you don't have to repot until the plant is halfway out of the container. You do have to fertilize more often since LECA is inert and of itself doesn't provide any nutrients to the orchid. Also better looking than bark, imo.

[BluPeaches]

I just changed over some of my phrags to leca, I'm working on the rest.

[Ray]

Unless that's really close or the shipping is included, that's not all that good of a price. There is one website selling 45L (50-51#) of a different brand for only $37.

[Shannara]

I completely agree with all the above statements. Changing my medium to LECA and Aliflor type mediums was life changing for my orchids. I will never go back to bark or any decomposing medium.

Shann~

[PocoGigio]

Ditto!

[vanda_obsession]

Originally Posted by Ray

Unless that's really close or the shipping is included, that's not all that good of a price. There is one website selling 45L (50-51#) of a different brand for only $37.

It is really close, its the same town I work in

[orchidaddict789]

I love hydroton! I bought a tolumnia and bulbo that are both potted in it, and I feel so relieved. The reason is that I've noticed how their roots are so fragile and thin, and how many of them are stuck to the side of the pot. I cannot imagine the pain of repotting them if they were planted in a degradable media! I don't have to worry about repotting them for a very long time.

I also use hydroton in S/H and so far the results are great. The noid paph has put out 3 new growths ever since I rescued it from a big box store, removed the horrible wet sphag, and repotted in S/H. As for my den, I don't know if it's the superthrive or the hydroton, but it's putting out lots of nice new roots.

I'm pleased with the S/H results and I plan to move some of my catts into it.

[orchids4me]

Originally Posted by orchidaddict789

I love hydroton! I bought a tolumnia and bulbo that are both potted in it, and I feel so relieved. The reason is that I've noticed how their roots are so fragile and thin, and how many of them are stuck to the side of the pot. I cannot imagine the pain of repotting them if they were planted in a degradable media! I don't have to worry about repotting them for a very long time.

I also use hydroton in S/H and so far the results are great. The noid paph has put out 3 new growths ever since I rescued it from a big box store, removed the horrible wet sphag, and repotted in S/H. As for my den, I don't know if it's the superthrive or the hydroton, but it's putting out lots of nice new roots.

I'm pleased with the S/H results and I plan to move some of my catts into it.

Hi orchidaddict,
Could you please post pics of your Tolumnia and your bolbo's set up in LECA I'm curious to see this. I'm getting a bolbo seedling next week and I have seedling Tolumnia's that are struggling and I'm willing to try it but need to see how its set up.
Thanks
Emmaye

[vanda_obsession]

thank you everyone for your comments and feedback... I'll probably meet this person tomorrow to pick it up... I'm tired of roots rotting, bugs, fungus, etc with the materials I'm using.... Plus I may be looking into doing hydroponics this year since our new apartment has a lot of large trees and on the balcony they don't get very much light I am leaving for a 3 day trip to home (florida) and hopefully I will have them all repotted by then, but at this time its looking pretty grim! lol Thank you everyone!!!

[patticake]

I love Hydroton! I'm gradually moving my chids into it. I can only buy a bag every so often, as money is a bit tight right now, but I stopped killing Phals once I started using it!

[orchidaddict789]

Originally Posted by orchids4me

Hi orchidaddict,
Could you please post pics of your Tolumnia and your bolbo's set up in LECA I'm curious to see this. I'm getting a bolbo seedling next week and I have seedling Tolumnia's that are struggling and I'm willing to try it but need to see how its set up.
Thanks
Emmaye

Sure! They're not in S/H--they're just in regular pots with hydroton. Here are some pics I took when I got the plants a few weeks ago.

This is the tolumnia in a 4" clay pot. I water it when it's really dry.



Here's the bulbo in a 5" (or 6"?) shallow plastic pot. You can sort of see the clay pellets (there's algae growing on them but I don't think it's a big deal). Since there are so many bulbs and roots dangling in midair, I've placed it on an upside-down clay pot, so the roots don't touch the table. The clay pot is in a plastic tray with 1" of water, which increases humidity. I mist it daily and I water it every 3 days or so, since the pellets dry out quickly but bulbos like moisture a lot more than tolumnias do.

[orchids4me]

Originally Posted by orchidaddict789

Sure! They're not in S/H--they're just in regular pots with hydroton. Here are some pics I took when I got the plants a few weeks ago.

This is the tolumnia in a 4" clay pot. I water it when it's really dry.



Here's the bulbo in a 5" (or 6"?) shallow plastic pot. You can sort of see the clay pellets (there's algae growing on them but I don't think it's a big deal). Since there are so many bulbs and roots dangling in midair, I've placed it on an upside-down clay pot, so the roots don't touch the table. The clay pot is in a plastic tray with 1" of water, which increases humidity. I mist it daily and I water it every 3 days or so, since the pellets dry out quickly but bulbos like moisture a lot more than tolumnias do.

Thanks for the pics : )
Do you have them free draining or a dish under the pot to collect the water in this set up?
They look really great very healthy and happy : )
Thanks
Emmaye

[tangers40]

yep, i'll swear by hydroton as well. i grow with the s/h method, which helps keep the moisture level up for my plants in this super-dry climate. my catts and phals absolutely love it. my only beef i guess would be that i'm having a harder and harder time finding appropriate s/h pots for bigger plants now (i prefer clear pots with no drain holes in which i can drill my own holes an inch above the bottom of the pot......but finding such things in 6 or 8 inch sizes is getting tough to do), and the fact that using a clear pot (so that the water reservoir level is visible) lets in light, causing lots of algae to grow in the pots. but i'm slowly investing in more "hider pots" to go over the outside to combat this problem.....now i just gotta repot and scrub the pots that are the worst offenders, yuck.

[Ray]

Just so folks are clear (from some of the comments I gather that's not the case):

The generic term is lightweight expanded clay aggregate - LECA.

There are many brands of LECA available - PrimeAgra, Hydroton, Aliflor, Hydrokorrels, Grow-Rokz, Hydroleca, etc. - each with its own set of properties.

[vanda_obsession]

I picked up my big ol' box of hydroton tonight!!! Actually I consider it a early birthday present from the boyfriend... I asked him about it and told him all the benefits, especially the 'easier big control' part and he was all in... I'm gonna try to start repotting tomorrow... I will try to take some before and after pictures... Hopefully the 'rough days' are gonna be over Thank you everyone for your input!

[orchidaddict789]

Originally Posted by orchids4me

Thanks for the pics : )
Do you have them free draining or a dish under the pot to collect the water in this set up?
They look really great very healthy and happy : )
Thanks
Emmaye

The bulbo is elevated above the tray of water so the water doesn't touch the pot. It's basically the same idea as putting gravel in the water tray so the pot stays above the water level. The water's mainly there for humidity. For the tolumnia, I just soak it for a little while and dump the water, like the regular orchids, so I guess it's free draining.

And vanda_obsession, good luck (and have fun) with the hydroton! I love repotting using it. No need to worry about splinters or the dust/pieces from the bark that make my nose feel funny!

[Ray]

Before using any brand of LECA, it is wise to wash it thoroughly.

It's bound to be dusty just by the nature of the material, but it will also contain manufacturing residues that you will want to extract. The binders used to cause the clays to roll up into balls can oxidize into soluble salts (some are sodium), so you'll want to get rid of that. Adding calcium nitrate and/or Epsom salt to the soak water will accelerate the process.

I don't know if they do so now, but years ago, kerosene and/or diesel fuel was used as the binder in the manufacture of Aliflor. It was supposed to burn off during the firing of the pellets, but unless it was done properly, there was some residual material in the pellets. I visited a nursery in Miami that had a driveway of crushed oyster shells and Aliflor - it reeked of kerosene so badly, that was the only use they could find for it.

[vanda_obsession]

a quick pic from the phone......... I'm very nervous about the repot because of the whole moving from a awesome orchid growing location (perfect lighting conditions, facing the east and got good early morning sun and by the time the sun got too hot, the peoples balcony above us was already shading them) to a very shady apartment facing the west... its been very difficult. I repotted 13 potted orchids which now has turned to 17 (several split) and I trimmed dead roots off, cleaned the pots of of any bugs (I had a BAD ant problem a while back) And just about all the roots on them all were rotted I hope what I did tonight was the right thing....

I'm just really nervous about them because these things are not cheap after you have a bunch of them... (I'm now up to 23) losing one is ok, but I dont want to lose more than one.... Please keep your fingers crossed for me... Moving has been tough cause we did it while the season changed and I'm still learning how the sun is on our balcony... I have been looking into getting some grow lights to grow them inside cause I think its way too shady on our balcony... Thank you all for your advice!

[0rchidees haine]

Has any one tried to grow orchid is Lava rocks? I know they are a little jagged but has anyone tried?

[E-Jag]

Vanda Obsession,
Curious, how is it going so far with the leca? Remember, you'll have to water/fertilize more often.

[rcb]

Originally Posted by 0rchidees haine

Has any one tried to grow orchid is Lava rocks? I know they are a little jagged but has anyone tried?

Yes I have. I've used it for the bottom of pots when I was out of the styrofoam peanuts, and I've used it for Vandaceous plants in hanging baskets for a little extra moisture. I've not had many problems with lava. Some recommend not to use it as all the nooks and crannies can get salt build-up. But I haven't had that happen. But my plants get rained on for most of the year.

The biggest problem I've had with it is during repot time. The roots of a variety of orchids seem to love it, and i can't get them off of the lava rock without cutting the roots. Not a real big problem though.

[0rchidees haine]

Thanks for the reply , I espcially curoius if they would work for Cattelya

[vanda_obsession]

Originally Posted by E-Jag

Vanda Obsession,
Curious, how is it going so far with the leca? Remember, you'll have to water/fertilize more often.

So far so good. I took a big risk by repotting them at this time of year, but they were going to die if I left them in the sphag moss. Its kind of a toss up right now. When I took them out of the moss they all lost their roots. Literally every one of them. I have lost one phal from root loss, I thought I saved it (thread: Cut the new spike off?!) and it finally went to orchid heaven. I also have a tiny den keiki I thought I had lost too, it has no leaves but just a stalk and its still green, and has been for 2 months, and has new nubs for roots. I fertilize and water more often which will become easier in the spring when they can all be outside. I have 13 in the hydroton, not including the phal I just lost. I have two baby vanda's in a basket with hydroton until they get bigger to hold themselves up (they are about 3-5" tall) and they seem to be happy. My mini den's and catts seem to be struggling the most. I was so heartbroken when I repotted them all and realized that they all had rotted roots. They are literally just stalks standing in the hydroton. PLLLLEEAASSEEEE hurry up spring!! Thanks for asking though

[vanda_obsession]

oh and since we are in an apartment, I take them and set them in the bath tub and get my little pump sprayer to spray them down. I have noticed since I bought this pump sprayer that they have grown better... (ESPECIALLY my vandas) Not sure why, maybe because its a fine mist rather than a shower head of water running over them? So far its been working good, but I have definitely quit buying orchids for now because this winter has been TOUGH to carry 24 plants to the bath tub so much and not to mention we get no sunshine in our windows this time of year

[katrina]

Originally Posted by 0rchidees haine

Thanks for the reply , I espcially curoius if they would work for Cattelya

I have a couple of catts in lava rock and they are doing fabulous. Like Renee, I've read where salt build up can be a problem but so far I've had no trouble with this.

One of my catts has been in a lava rock for over 2yrs...no issues w/salt build up. I do flush my pots regularly...is that the reason for no build up?...I can't say for certain.

Lava rock needs to be watered more than bark mixes but (IME) less than leca.

[vanda_obsession]

katrina, what mixture do you flush your orchids with?

[katrina]

Vanda -- Nothing special...plain water.

When I say flush...I let the water run through the pots for a little while...a good 5-10 minutes...depending on the size of the pot. It doesn't sound like a long time but a LOT of water can run in that amount of time. This is done only when the plants are inside. During the warmer months I let Mother Nature do the flushing w/rain.

I've read a couple of articles disputing that "flushing" actually removes the build up of salts. IMHO, the jury is still out on that theory so I continue to do it.

[vanda_obsession]

hmm.. thank you.. I've seen a few different responses as far as solutions some folks make for flushing.. I like to hear what everyone uses


Is it bad that we needed a humidifier for me because dry skin and constant bloody noses... But I put my foot down on getting one that would be more suited to helping my orchids be happy?? a little off topic... hehe

[katrina]

Originally Posted by vanda_obsession

hmm.. thank you.. I've seen a few different responses as far as solutions some folks make for flushing.. I like to hear what everyone uses

Your goal in flushing is to simply attempt to remove any build up of fertilizer salts and/or other deposits that might build up in the medium...there's no need to complicate it. Plain water will do the trick. If you want to be a little more thorough in your flushing...use RO water or distilled water which are both free of minerals and salts.

IMHO, sometimes people make this orchid growing thing more complicated than it needs to be. My motto...keep it simple.

[vanda_obsession]

I agree.... My orchids (atleast to me) seemed to be doing so well, and once I REALLY started reading into them and all the little things out there to watch out for, I think I got a little too crazy and started to see the health of some go downhill.... I pretty much leave them alone and don't nit pick or fuss over them as much.

[plucker]

Originally Posted by 0rchidees haine

Has any one tried to grow orchid is Lava rocks? I know they are a little jagged but has anyone tried?

In my area this is all most growers use. Especially for cats. In summer we get metres of rain - yep wet season and the water just flows through the pots.

I am growing my phals in it now and also experimenting with clay pebbles as an alternative. Both methods are working fine with watering every second day and fertilize weekly/weakly. The lava rock is producing quicker root systems and gives greater support during repotting.

[vanda_obsession]

As for an update.. I have noticed today some new growth on the orchids since I repotted in November. I was worried I was going to lose them, but I noticed today when I shuffled them all to the bath tub for their feeding/watering, I saw a few of my dens (which either lost all their leaves or most and look rather scruffy) with some new little nubby roots coming through, my catts have some new baby shoots coming up. The phal's are still struggling a bit... I ordered a LED light panel as a 'tester' almost a MONTH ago from over seas and I have yet to get it. (grrrrr!) but so far I'm getting new growth.