can phal survive with just roots?

[wisechild9]

Ok, maybe this is just a dumb question and I can't let go, but I have a phal that's been really good for a few years. Then it succumbed to mite problems and then crown rot. There were a few good roots left. Is there any way this phal could be saved, if there are only roots left?

[Willc73]

not looking good for you is it?
Once a plant has crown rot, its only alternative is to grow a keiki. Without leaves that isn't looking good. My advice is to chuck it. If by miracle a keiki does grow before rot takes it, it will be a couple years before it will bloom.

[new_keiki]

my question is the other way around: can a phal survive without any roots? I tried increasing humidity but it didn't work. Now the 2 remaining tiny-mini leaves are terribly wrinkled. Do I have no more hope?? Thanks in advance

sw

[Willc73]

sounds like your two remaining leaves are dead or good as dead. You can try to bag it, however if the leaves are dead, you won't have much luck reviving a phal with no roots and no leaves. Correction: you have no chance.
chuck it.

[Lucifer]

Originally Posted by wisechild9

There were a few good roots left. Is there any way this phal could be saved, if there are only roots left?

Its tough, but yes. Phals are able to photosynthesis through thier roots. So, mounted ones can survive. If the roots are in a pot away from the light, then its difficult for them to photosynthesis.

The roots do hold some energy that the plant can use to make a new growth or kieki. Be patient, and don`t let it stay to wet.

Without roots is the same deal. It can use energy produced in the leaves to make roots. But if humidity is super low, then its difficult for the leaves to live.

Either way, its probably better for you to buy a new plant. Unless this one is really special.

[gerneveyn]

Originally Posted by new_keiki

my question is the other way around: can a phal survive without any roots? I tried increasing humidity but it didn't work. Now the 2 remaining tiny-mini leaves are terribly wrinkled. Do I have no more hope?? Thanks in advance

sw

The Sphag and Bag method may work. Try Ray Barkalow's method http://www.firstrays.com/sphagnbag.htm

[mayres]

I'd like to hear from someone who has actually had a phal come back from nothing but roots. How long did it take to send up a basal keiki? Anyone??????? I have had a plant send up a basal keiki from a struggling plant that had but two small floppy leaves, which eventually whithered once the keiki had 2-3 small leaves. The resulting "plant" now looks like a keiki that would have been removed from a flower spike (size-wise). It is going to be about two years to hopefully get this plant to blooming size......

[latsyrc]

Mayres, I had a phal like that. It had a pretty incredible root system, but succumbed to crown rot. I think it was only about 3 months before I saw a keiki. It's still struggling, though.

[janet_a]

well, i got one of the leaves-but-no-root (yes, it had one root, and then lost it; s/h was too wet i guess); i did the spag and bag and dipped it in a KLN solution last night so---we'll see.

i still look on things like this as a learning experience.

[mayres]

Hmmm. 3 months of looking at a pot with nothing above the media. Hmmm. I have a plant like this right now. Hmmm. I wonder if I will have the patience to "play this out" to the bitter end? Of course you wonder if "the end" has not already come and gone? I have about 25-30 phals that are all doing wonderfully (majority with flowers and spikes now), so a work acquaintance gave me a phal that had not bloomed for her in the past 2-3 years for me to "nurse" back to health (and blooms!). I put it in new media and placed it in the midst of my thriving "family" and what do you suppose happens? EVERY single leaf fell off! I'm dreading her phone call one of these days asking me how "her" phal is doing. I'm praying for a basal keiki before that happens...........

[arleneg]

I have a Dtps. which succumbed to crown rot recently. Earlier today, I took it out of its pot and am not sure what to make of it. At any rate, I soaked it in Physan 20 for 10 minutes. While soaking, I was looking at it and thinking what's the point. It's probably dead. Since I can't decide to either 'nurse' it or chuck it. I've placed it in a bag and took pics to show you all and get your opinion before doing anything else.

Keep/nurse it or chuck it?!

[Lucifer]

Sorry to be the barer of bad news, but those roots look pretty dead. When you sqeeze them, are they soft? Phal roots are usually white or green. Beige is usually bad.

Its easier to just go out an buy a new plant.

That said, it is very satisfying to bring a plant back from the dead. I firmly believe that there is much for a beginner to learn from doing so.

[arleneg]

Originally Posted by Lucifer

Sorry to be the barer of bad news, but those roots look pretty dead. When you sqeeze them, are they soft? Phal roots are usually white or green. Beige is usually bad.

Its easier...

Actually, some of them are firm even when the color is yellow/beige in color.

Oh well. I guess it's orchid heaven. I'll keep the name tag, in case I decide to buy the same plant which was really cute and had beautiful blooms.

[new_keiki]

I tried the "sphag-n-bag" technique (without the soaking though) but after a while mold seemed to develop and that's when I took it out again. Do I really seal it without any air holes or any of that sort? Thanks a bunch (on the behalf of the dying phal)

[mayres]

Arlene - that "ball" of brown roots almost looks like a couple of tangling spiders! I'm just leaving mine in the east window in the media and clear pot - may or may not amount to anything - certainly nothing to loose at this point. New Keiki - I think you need to have some air movement in and out of the bag or mold/mildew etc. develops in the stagnant air - I've only tried this once myself and then only half-heartedly. Maybe Cynthia will "weigh in" shortly and can give us all the minute details - as she utilizes this method. mike

[gerneveyn]

When I did the sphag and bag method with a phal, I had problems with white mold. Everyday or every other day I would dip the root nub in a small cup of 3% hydrogen peroxide and place the plant in the bag. The plant I placed in a styrafoam cup that I'd poked holes into and then in the bag. In the bottom corner of the bag I put a damp paper towel and sealed the bag. Then I got busy with other things and didn't check on it every day. So about six weeks later I was really ecstatic to find it had 3 new roots. Probably the sphag and bag method will work without the pre-soak of plant in rooting hormone sugar solution. But I do believe letting the plant soak up nutrients for a couple hours in that solution is highly beneficial in its recovery.

[janet_a]

i've had the mold in the bag too; i just try to open the bag and puff some different air in it every few days.

so why is it that we keep trying to revive these silly little plants? (other than the fact that they're pretty expensive.)

[arleneg]

Mike, I looked at it again. It does look like a couple of spiders... Today, I'll try one more thing -- soak the roots in Superthrive or Daniel Barrett's revive formula. We'll see what happens.

[mayres]

Good idea arlene - maybe I'll soak mine in superthrive this weekend too!
Janet - yes! Why? I doubt many "normal" folks would?

Does the plant really mean that much to you that you are willing to invest so much time, money and energy into a bunch of roots that may or may not survive, and if they do, may or may not bloom for four years or more? If so, then make the effort. If not, then chuck it and buy a new plant that will give you lots of pleasure for those four years. My motto is "only grow knock-your-socks-off plants and forget all the others."

[arleneg]

For some of us, it's a matter of curiousity or want to experiment if an orchid (aside from the ghost orchid) will produce new growth with just roots.

Arleneg, if it's the experiment you would like to do, then go for it. But you might still want to buy a new one to give you pleasure while the first one struggles.