Help! My Phal. is Very Sick!

[lmgarret]

Can anyone identify what is going on with my phal.? It all started with a yellow leaf and now there are black spots on most of the leaves. What should I do? My phal. was actually very healthy several weeks ago and now it is a mess. Also, I'm worried because my other orchids have been very close to this sick phal. and I'm afraid they are next. What could this sickness be....mildew, rot, or mites? Please help! I've attached some images below. Any advice, suggestions are very much appreciated because I'm a beginner in caring for orchids. Thanks in advance. Lynnette

[Fabolusus]

That looks like a dendrobium to me.

[lmgarret]

I don't know much about orchids but I believe this is Dendrobium Phalaenopsis....I could be wrong, but this is what I was told. Can you identify what is wrong with it? Thanks, Lynnette

[Aniko]

Fabolusus is right, this is a dendrobium looking plant, definitely not phalaenopsis.The leaves seem to be eaten by some bugs.The black spots, if growing, are bad signs of fungus infection.As I am quite a beginner too, I hope that somebody more experienced will help with advise what to do.
Aniko

[lmgarret]

Thank you for your help. Since I'm a newbie, what is the difference between a dendrobium and a phalaenopsis? THanks for your help!

[Aniko]

Your Dendrobium probable is a so called Palaenopsis type .Read this thread to learn some basics:

http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/newbie-questions/1748-dendrobium-nobile-or-non.html

This time, your first concern is to get rid of pests: take a closer look and seek for any living/moving creature on/or under leaves, canes, potting medium and try to give an accurate description of what you find.Also observe if the black spots are growing or not, and what texture they are:soft or dry.
Than we can find out what to do

[lmgarret]

I watched the Dendrobium very carefully and I did not notice anything moving. I took a swipe at the black areas growing on the edge of the leaves and the black areas wiped off. The consistency of the black appeared to be somewhat damp, although it wiped off easily and crumbled in the paper towel. Should I buy new orchid bedding and repot and then use some sort of a mite killer? THank you for all of your help!! Lynnette

[Aniko]

Looking at your pictures again,I can see that the bite marks are quite old.If new ones do not appear, the bugs might be killed already. I can also see some whitish spots on the leaves, which might be the residuum from an earlier pesticide treatment. Keep an eye on your plant to see if something new happens.
Re potting wouldn't do any good this time, just add a new stress.
Aniko.

Lynette, you say the black areas wiped off. What did you see under the black areas? Did you see damaged tissue or healthy tissue?

[Aniko]

Ooh! Important question (I wanted to ask, too.)

[lmgarret]

The tissue seemed unharmed underneath the black residue. Could this be rot? Now the cane in the middle (the one that has lost all of it's leaves) has turned yellow and is rubbery. I am very confused at what is happening. Thanks for you help!

[Aniko]

Unharmed tissue underneath black residue: is a good news,it's not rot.

But the yellow cane I'm afraid is dying. But I don't know what you mean as "rubbery": soft and dry, or soft and wet, or what else?

Read this post please:http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/orchid-pests-and-diseases/1723-checking-for-mites.html

May help you identify an "unseen" enemy.Spraying with neem oil can help to save the rest of the plant.Don't forget that after neem oil spraying the plant has to be shaded for a couple of days, because this treatment makes photosensitive reaction.

(Just I've discovered on my dendrobium the same chlorophyll eaters )

[lmgarret]

Hi Aniko,

I read the post and it was very helpful, thank you. The stalk that is dying has turned yellow and rubbery and what I mean by rubbery is that it has become very soft and flexible (and slightly damp). Should I remove this stalk from the pot, or will removing it cause me to damage roots to the other stalks? Thanks for all of your help and I will purchase some Neem Oil! Hopefully it will save my orchid! Thanks!

[Aniko]

I don know what to say concerning the yellow cane (stalk), I've never been yet in this situation, but if is dead it's nothing else to do.
I think it would be worthy to try a new thread, with the correct name: dendrobium, and the actual situation documented (a new picture) before you remove the cane - so an experimented orchid geek may give some extra advise.
Good luck, I hope everything is going to be fine !

[Winterwhite]

Hi Lynnette,
Are you sure that this is a phal? It looks more like my dendrobiums. But I will be interested in hearing what others have to say about your leaves. Mary

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Yes, I think it was worked out earlier in the thread that it was a Dendrobium (of the Phalaenopsis type). OK, after this extra discussion of the rotted cane, I noticed in the picture that it looks like the big cane has rot in the lower section. If this is right, that the lower section of the large green cane is soft, I am afraid there is no hope for this plant. It looks to me like it has been kept too wet during winter when it is normal for Dens to go dormant, and should have been kept much drier at the roots. Water, then let dry, then leave dry for a few days. I suspect that the moss was the real problem, as it does not dry out very fast, and it is hard to gety wet again when you let it get hard dry, as the mix for a Den should get. This continuous wetness at the base of the plant appears to have resulted in rot at the base, the worst place for rot, as that is where all the future growths need to come from in the normal pattern of growth. If I am right about the rot in the lower part of the plant, you want to try to get the upper part of the cane to keiki. You would cut off all rot, place the cane on its side, maybe cut in half to shorten it if it is too long for the pot, and have it half to two thirds buried by the mix. Keep it dry for a week or two to help it harden off a little (shortened dormancey?), and then water it fairly often, or at least don't let it dry out for any length of time, especially if growths start. It would be very helpful to use hormones to help it get started putting out growth. But once you see growths starting, wash off the hormones. Any of the hormones for plants will do, including tomato set. Superthrive is nice, but not specific enough for starting eyes. Good luck.

[Willc73]

Ok, I am sorry to bring this up but I can't help it. What do you guys think a Dendrobium (of the Phalaenopsis type) is? Are you talking about a cross species hybrid? den X phal of some sort? If it is, only the dendrobium genes are being expressed. There appears to be no Phalaenopsis in this plant at all.
If there is a tag, please share it with us. If there wasn't a tag, you should assume it's just a noid Dendrobium.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

No Phaenopsis what so ever. Phals don't breed/cross with Dens. The reason you keep hearing the word phalaenopsis, with a small p, is that there is a species of Dendrobium that has a flower that looks like a Phalaenopsis (Capital P for a genus) flower, so taxonimists named this Dendrobium, Dendrobium phalaenopsis. Note that the species name has a small p. Since Dendrobium phalaenopsis has a very nicely shaped flower, hybridizers used it very heavily, and the plants they created are commonly call phalaenopsis type Dendrobiums. They are pure Dendrobium, but have a lot of Den phalaenopsis in them as well as other Den species.

[eSRods]

Excellent information Cynthia. I thought D. phal was a X between two Genera
By the way, many Aussie Den species have changed their names including D. phalaenopsis (now called Vappodes phalaenopsis). There is only 1 Dendrobium species endemic in Aussie, D. stuartii.
I may have to give up orchiding too many long names to remember

What conditions are you giving this den? What light is it in, how often do you water it, fertilizer, etc?

[Willc73]

Ok, that makes more sense. I have been growing only phals for so long, I have lost track of other species.

[lmgarret]

I agree that the dendrobium is probably rotting. Although I'm wondering if it is something else that is affecting it. The reason why I think this is because I have two dendrobiums and both are in moss and I have cared for both of them the same, but there is only one that is sick. Could this plant have a fungus of some sort that could have been nesting in the moss? Well, Thank you all so very much for your advise and help and I'm going to do my best to save this dendrobium. I guess the last option is for me to get the upper part of the cane to keiki. I am a beginner, but I guess we all have to start somewhere.

Thanks again! Wish me Luck! Lynnette

[Aniko]

Lynnette, I think you should re-pot the other, healthy dendrobium in a proper medium before get sick, too.
Sphagnum moss is not for dens.Too much wetness it's enough for getting rot...
Good luck!!!

Again, what conditions are you growing the plant in? What light is it in, how often do you water, what fertilizer program do you have? How large is the pot that the plant is in? Dendrobiums like extremely tight pots, and they don't like a lot of nitrogen. If you're determined to try to save the plant, try treating it with straight hydrogen peroxide wherever you see the black.

[lmgarret]

Great News!!! I brought my dendrobium to an orchid greenhouse and the owners said that my dendrobium will be just fine (Yippee!). Everyone was right that the moss was the problem and the biggest problem identified was that my dendrobium was potted too deeply by the vendor (therefore rotting was occuring at the base). When the owner removed all of the moss there was actually two dendrobiums planted side by side in the oversized pot (also the pot the vendor used was too large....4X the size needed) and the cane that died was the one orchid that was planted extremely deep into the moss. Also, the cane that is still healthy had healthy new growth forming at the base (very exciting). The owner then repotted my den. in a much smaller pot and used a mixture of some type of rock and bark and he advised for me to not water for at least a week or so. It's amazing how this orchid expert was able to clean my dendrobium up (I watched with such admiration). My den. looks brand new and it already looks happier after 24hours!! I am so excited that my den. will live!!!! I'm bringing my other healhty orchid to the greenhouse today to be repotted because now that I'm a bit more educated I can see that this one is potted way too deep as well. Thanks so much for all of your help!! I now will have two happy dendrobiums that will live long lives! Thanks!!! Lynnette

[Aniko]

I'm glad to hear all these great news.Happy growing!
Aniko.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

This certainly points up the tremendous advantage of a hands on expert. I highly recommend that every one join an orchid society, and meet real experts first hand. It is sort of like performing surgey after reading a book about it. We do what we can for you, but sometimes it is not enough. So glad you found this person.

[KikiBlissGirl]

Hi, I'm new here -- just joined out of concern for one of my phal's -- looks like bugs have been munching on the outside of the leaves -- I'm going to try the Neem Oil to slow the buggers down.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by lmgarret

I don't know much about orchids but I believe this is Dendrobium Phalaenopsis...

I think you mean either Dendrobium phalaenopsis or a Phalaenopsis-type Dendrobium. There is no Dendrobium Phalaenopsis (capital P indicated hybrid). There is a Dendrobium phalaenopsis (small P indicates species) but you dont' usually see these. 99.99% of these noid Dendrobiums are Phal-type Dendrobiums.

[orchidwonder]

I bought my mother in law a dendrobium orchid for easter.. it was grown in hawaii.. it was this beautiful yellow with brown coloring.. she had a beautiful orchid to begin with and yesterday i was at her home and noticed HER orchid had died, and asked her about it.. she said that she thought my gift had a fungus and had killed hers. This fungus she speaks of is the brown in the leaves.. ill tell you i think that it belongs there. all of the spots are exact on the flower they look like like tiger faces... could she be right? does anyone know of a disease like this?

[vineet]

Hi everyone,
Can anyone tell me from the photo which orchid specie is this?also let me know what is the difference between phal and Dphal?
I bought it by thinking it as phal.Image099.jpg

[1joyceh]

it looks like a Phal vineet. Below is the culture sheet for caring for that type
http://www.aos.org/Default.aspx?id=204

[Jlie]

And a Den-Phal is a hybrid between the two. It'll have canes like any Den but the flower will be shaped like a Phal. Generally.

[Emma Grey]

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

No Phaenopsis what so ever. Phals don't breed/cross with Dens. The reason you keep hearing the word phalaenopsis, with a small p, is that there is a species of Dendrobium that has a flower that looks like a Phalaenopsis (Capital P for a genus) flower, so taxonimists named this Dendrobium, Dendrobium phalaenopsis. Note that the species name has a small p. Since Dendrobium phalaenopsis has a very nicely shaped flower, hybridizers used it very heavily, and the plants they created are commonly call phalaenopsis type Dendrobiums. They are pure Dendrobium, but have a lot of Den phalaenopsis in them as well as other Den species.

Actually, Jlie, here is Cynthia's explanation of a phal-type Den. They aren't actually crosses between a dendrobium and a phalaenopsis.

[Jlie]

Oh ho ho! Thank you Emma Grey!

[vineet]

Why are phals more costly than dendrobium and cattelya?