Growing in stones

[Townsville]

Hi - and Happy New Year!

I just visited a local (very successful) grower's shadehouse and was surprised to find he was growing in only two ways. One is on pieces of wood and the other in small stones - only.

I guess I was not surprised at his success with Aussie natives - but what really interested me was that he was growing very healthy phals in pots with only small stones.

I came home and looked at my three phals - all babied - and two not looking that good - and wondered...?

Has anyone any thoughts?

Townsville

[janet_a]

al (of al's orchidexchange) grows a lot of his phals in pea gravel--but he's got a greenhouse with automatic waterers and where he can keep high humidity. i suppose it would depend on your conditions.

[arleneg]

Hmm... I would've never thought about potting my Phals in small stones.

I wonder if you use that type of potting medium and have the pot sit on water. Will the water travel up the stones and keep the roots moist and help with increasing humidity? This would be an interesting test.

[janet_a]

i doubt it; if you had the phal in primeagra or something that wicks, that would work, but i doubt it would happen with just rocks/pebbles/gravel.

The stones may not be just stones but diatomite. This type of stone is reputed to hold lots of water without being wet, and can keep the roots of any plant well hydrated without waterlogging. I don't use them alone, but I do put them in my mixes.

[Townsville]

No - not diatomite - just plain smallish 1-2cm garden stones. He has quite a big 70% shade house and a garden hose - and a green thumb I suspect.

His method for striking new plants on pieces of timber is to tie the cutting on with elastic bandage and fix it with a 2" nail hammered through a flattened beer bottle cap. Everything seems to take. I was round there because his shade house is overcrowded and he wanted to get rid of some of the new plants. I risked natives on timber and a couple of dens (probably natives - he had no name for most of the plants) in stones. Didn't risk the phals though.

I suspect our climate is quite good. Warm to hot with reasonable to high humidity. Many local gardeners grow their orchids in pots in the garden - though the plants often look a bit dirty. I use the south side of my verandah.

Townsville

[arleneg]

Townsville,

Could you post a pic of the plants potted in stone? I'm curious..

[prisana]

I've seen some Phals grown "on" rocks, but never "in" stones, but why not? Shouldn't it work the same way? I'm sure in their native habitat they wouldn't have a choice whether to be on the rocks or in the stones..right ? Wherever it feels the most comfy.I guess?

[Townsville]

Originally Posted by arleneg

Townsville,

Could you post a pic of the plants potted in stone? I'm curious..

As I said in my first post - I did not bring home any phals in stones - looked beyond me. However, these two are from his shade house - both similarly potted - nothing underneath these stones but more stones.

Townsville

[gerneveyn]

Interesting. I never saw orchids in stones like that.

[Townsville]

Stop this thread!! I am an IDIOT. Yesterday I put one of the two pots I brought home from this shade house in water in the sink - and was called away before I could pour water over the top. When I came back the pot was swarming with tiny pale brown ant-like creatures. I emptied the pot into the bin and washed off the roots and repotted both - and what did I find? Very small pieces of timber in amongst the stones - and the timber was infested. One of the resident pots had caught the bug too - but I am trying to defer repotting by using white oil on that one.
Apologies to everyone - Townsville

The picture on the right looks like diatomite to me.

[PhalPal]

I have a wonderful book 'Culture of the Phal Orchid' by Bob Gordon (highly recommended!) and he has known reputable growers that challenged each other to grow in very peculiar medium. Two of the winners that were successful: broken glass and metal bottle caps! If it drains, supports the plant, and is watered to give the roots enough moisture - as in nature- I guess anything will work! Convenience was not one of the criteria....

[justloveorchids]

OK

I am now going to pot up one of the neglected phals i have been given in some small sterilised gravel and see what happens .........it cant be worse than its current situation .

i have 2 phals in one pot so i will pot up one in gravel and the other in a bark mix and record progress

[jerrymeola]

The bark and rock mix is a common one for Dens. Not very common for Phals.

Orchids as you may realize from this thread can grow in just about anything.

Phals grow very well in hydroponic rocks. Products like AliFlor and HydroKorrel are clay products like clay pots with air infused into them. They make a very light product that roots can penetrate. They will wick up water from a saucer below. They can only hold 7% water so over watering is not a problem. Phals like to be kept evenly moist not wet so Hydro is a good solution.

I pot many in hydro and glue a saucer under it. I use side slit orchid pots and the water can never get deeper than the lowest slit. Then all you have to do is keep some water in the saucer and not let it dry out for too long. The pot also changes color when moist so it is a double test for when to water.

[Townsville]

A number of locals pot in "red stone". It seems successful - but I have never managed to work out where they get it from
Townsville

[kmarch]

I have 2 Cattleyas in stones and they seem ok. I would not grow a Phal in stones unless you want to be constantly watering or unless you have a humid environment where they will not dry out.

Townsville, lava rock is red. A larger version is used for gas grills.

[jerrymeola]

The red lava rock is a lot heavier than hydroponic rock which is clay with air blowm into it.

It does not have any hydroponic value. You should use hydro it is a lot better.

[BillC]

Jerry, do you think that using perlite as the medium would work as well as any other of the rock types? Bill

[Townsville]

Originally Posted by kmarch

I have 2 Cattleyas in stones and they seem ok. I would not grow a Phal in stones unless you want to be constantly watering or unless you have a humid environment where they will not dry out.

I tried a phal in coarse bark with stones on top (was afraid of root rot). The plant remained healthy - but did not grow. Changed back to spag and it took off immediately.

Thanks for the stone advice. I still don't know where they get it from so am using coarse bark with pebbles on top to keep it all stable.

[plucker]

Townsville, a place called Flinstones sells red rock/stone in 10mm or 14mm rock sizes bagged for $14, if you only need a little bit. It comes in bags as big as a bag of cement roughly.

Most landscaping mobs around here sell lava rock in both red and black if you want to use that method, and allow you to purchase in multiple sizes from bags up to truck loads.

Spag seems to work in our climate even through the wet season, like the one we are having now. Just pack it light and only layer it for about an inch or so to help the air circulation.

[Bolero]

I think it could work for Phals, I guess it would be like growing in semi-hydro???

A number of growers use just perlite or just stones to grow their plants in and I must admit they grow them better than what I've seen in most other media.

[Oz Orchid]

Hi, I am new here so be patient with me, I grow my Phalaenopsis in polystyrene and pebbles/blue metal (on the top), actually I grow nearly all my orchids this way. Only some native Dendrobiums and Phaps are in bark and charcoal and a bit of shellgrit. Cymbids ( I only have a handfull),Sarcs and Miltoniopsis are in a mmixture of rockwool perlite and very fine polystyrene.
The good thing is the medium does not break down, ph is stable, repotting is easy as you just fill the pot with more of the same so the roots are not disturbed.
I saw this at a society meeting a few years ago, a local commercial grower showed us what he did. Well I tried a few pots and then bit by bit changed over. As all the plants are now in the same medium, they all dry out about the same, I need less fertilizer I use an in-line fertilizer as well which feeds a little everytime I water.
One of the members 'Anton' knows me quite well and he has seen how well everything grows. I must emphasize that I grow in a shadehouse that is fully covered in shadecloth and solarweave and have plastic with gravel on top on the floor which I keep nice and wet.
I hope this might give everybody some food for thought!
Cheers

[terra_australis]

The only issue I have with perlite/polystyrene dominant mixes is that they tend to wash or blow out of the pot... I assume that's why you put gravel on top?

[LouisW]

I think stones are a great medium for the plants that are able to handle it a bit drier and need a lot of air. I have a friend who grows Cattleya alliance plants and Vandas in stone. They all do great and he never has to worry about breakdown or air access. He probably has to water a little more though.

Phals are a plant that I wouldnt think to put in stones unless its very humid.

[Oz Orchid]

Yes exactly but once the roots are growing nothing falls out anymore, problems arise when I bench the plants as they can topple over easily but I normally stick them into a terracotta pot and pack it with polystyrene and drape Tillandsia udenoides over the top. I grow all my Den. hardcanes/Phaleanthe/biggibums in polystyrene in very open plastic mesh pots so the roots can grow out and hang down. When I stick them into clay pots I wet the roots well and then twist as I insert one pot into the other and the roots are fine. I do the same with my Vandacious plants I take to shows.

[Oz Orchid]

Hi I will post a picture of orchids in polystyrene as soon as I am allowed
cheers

[vanda_obsession]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Phals grow very well in hydroponic rocks. Products like AliFlor and HydroKorrel are clay products like clay pots with air infused into them. They make a very light product that roots can penetrate. They will wick up water from a saucer below. They can only hold 7% water so over watering is not a problem. Phals like to be kept evenly moist not wet so Hydro is a good solution.

.

I am a BIG fan of hydroton! All of my guys are in hydroton, minus my hanging vanda's and they are THRIVING in it now. Greatest change I have done to get all of them out of sphag! I managed to get 40 pounds of it from someone off craigslist for $30. I have to water them more, but I know that its not going to be sopping wet for days and risk root rot or some sort of other funkiness if they are in sphag! Plus where we live now is MUCH shadier and I only have western facing windows, so I have also invested in LED lighting panels too.. I have a 2-3 year old vanda I bought off ebay from someone and when I went to put it in a basket, it had hardly ANY good roots, to keep it alive I packed sphag around it so it can suck up some more water than just get watered, and then dry right now. Thats the only thing I have in sphag right now

sorry I rambled there!! hehe!

[KnittingBlonde]

I just transfered all of my orchids (save for the three I bought yesterday that are in bloom) into lava rock (red kind). I'd read that it helped with aeration, though it dries out really easily. I'm fine with watering every other day or so as long as the roots don't die. I've had problems with root rot. I haven't noticed any changes yet, but it's only been a few days.

[terra_australis]

Should do well in lava rock. I have some of my Sarcs in pure lava rock and now they're established they love it. I think it may act as a source of some trace elements too...?

[SK7]

I know of a couple of nurseries that grow the orchids in crushed granite.

[HotPot]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

I have a wonderful book 'Culture of the Phal Orchid' by Bob Gordon (highly recommended!) and he has known reputable growers that challenged each other to grow in very peculiar medium. Two of the winners that were successful: broken glass and metal bottle caps! If it drains, supports the plant, and is watered to give the roots enough moisture - as in nature- I guess anything will work! Convenience was not one of the criteria....

I wonder if the broken glass and the bottle tops were the most successful because they would both hold little pools of water - the caps definitely would and some of the glass pieces if they were curved and pointing upwards.