aaaahhhh spotty yellow leaves

[God.Jr]

hey there well a phal i bought a while ago has started to show signs of spotted yellowness on them and it is freaking me out i felt the medium and the medium fell dry and as i have not watered her for over a week i did so yesterday which was wen i first noticed *i should have posted something yesterday......but i thought i would have been able to post some pix to show ppl's wat i am talking 'bout*........i'll try get some pix as soon as i get my bluetooth working

there are still two leaves that are looking pretty health but now there are three that look like thwy are on their way out, which will leave me with two leaves.....
i doubt that is has been caused by over watering i think it may have something to do with the lite..... i spray my orchids once a day now * only in the morning wen i wake* i could not get hold of any bamboo sticks so i have used ordinary wooden kebab sticks to try tell how dry the medium is

i think it maybe a light issue but i am not 100% on that, .....
i would like to leave my orchids on my balcony, but i am worried it may get to windy at times and i'm not sure how many hours of direct sun they can have in the morning,

i read somewhere dendrobiums like to get morning sun till around 10 from then they should be in the shade.i know phal's don't like direct sun at all so they don't although i could be worried they are not getting enough light

[jerrymeola]

It is difficult to say what is the cause of losing three leaves at once, although, it may be normal.

If the two good leaves are the newest then your plant is probably OK. All
plants lose leaves as they age,

Losing three leaves at once is a lot, but if they were all about the same age and the two good leaves are this years growth, then I would say it can be normal growth.

I have a large number of Phal seedlings from last year that had grown to 10 inch spreads and last month they lost almost all their leaves as new growth took over and the plants no longer needed the old leaves.

This is especially common in Phals grown in pots (pots grow the plant upside down since they normally grow down not up). When grown in pots, the new leaves cover the old leaves and they die from lack of light. When they hang each leaf positions itself to get some light often growing in a spiral.

With all Orchids if the new growth is healthy then the loss of older leaves is natural.

The care you described sounds good, I do not have any changes that I think are necessary to the way you grow them.

Phals can take some morning sun. It is the heat buildup on the leaves that can burn them. Keep an eye on them when you first put them out for the morning sun and feel the leaves every hour to see if they are getting hot. This time of year the sun is low in the sky and the light levels are only half of July levels. It is unlikely that you will have burning problems this time of year. If you have a good breeze the plant will be able to take even more light.

[God.Jr]

wow thanx that really make me feel less worried, i was kinda getting worried i read a couple of threads about leaves dieing, just was not sure if i could asume i mite be going through the same thing cause there where a lot more leaves fallin off than wat others where saying,

i'll try post some pix tomorrow cause the bluetooth she is workin

[God.Jr]

well good mornig ppl and to all the pagans and christians merry christmas!

ok well i said i would post some pix so ppl's can have a look at these yellow leaves there are three leaves going yellow here there is the two leaves here in the front of the pix and one you mite see better in the second photo *rapping round down the back side of the pot and you can see that some of the roots are comin out the pot too ,but that doesn't freak me out to much


but after reading a lot of threads about yellow leaves i am hopin that it's just part of the process phal's go through.

sorry for the double post

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

OK, godjr, the two bottom leaves would not bother me, but that upper leaf is NOT normal leaf loss. I think it is time to start looking for a reason. Two possibilities I can think of, mites and cold water damage. If neither of these pan out, then virus might be considered, but I don't have any experience with this particular set of symptoms as being directly caused by virus, but a plant weakened by virus can come down with just about anything.

For mites, take a look at the material I posted in this thread.
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/gen...ighlight=mites

For cold water, be aware that water much colder than the ambient surroundings could cause tissue collapse. Have you been watering this plant with a hose, or misting with direct tap water? Since it is warm weather in your area right now, this is unlikely unless the damage was done several months ago.

I think we need a few more responders, as I have very little experience with Phals, with mites and cold water damage the only experiece of damage with them so far.

[God.Jr]

i know some how i feel as though i may need to do something. this morning i went out to check them and when i lifted the one leaf it came off and at that moment i a crawler and a little guy with wings i think. and like you said cynthia,*that leaf dieing on the top doesn't look health or right to me either that why even after reading a few threads basiclly saying these things happen i thought i should at least be 100% sure......

so i think it is time to maybe have a look at getting some pest control done before they spread to the others and start to kill them too...... bummer i have to wait for tomorrow wen it ain't a public holiday to go get some kind of insecticide.

will i be able to get some stuff for orchids from my local nursery, to stop this insect infestation about to go down....... i read the thing on mites and i wiped the under side and the topside of the leaves to see for any color residue would stick to the tissue like it mentioned but i got nothing........no stickiness either that i could find. but i have notices it seems to have lost some of it glow and it's ora doesn't seem to be as high as when i first bought her, so i think something could be wrong

to be honest i would not like to use any artificial insecticides, i would prefer to use purely natural products.
i really liked the sound of the mixture of rubbing alcohol and 1 tsp of mild dish detergent (for expl. dove). as it is very hot here and i would be scared that the oil mite heat up and burn my plants but the mild dish detergent kinda freaks me out even more,*i'm not keen on the artificial* which kinda makes the neem oil seems less of a killer......

as i live in south africa i may have to do some research about it, just in case you don't get some of these insecticides here.....

a few min/ hours later after researching i found this site that seems to have so much info on pest's and diseases. so i read through this and now i'm confused i still have no idea what the problem could be but if some one could maybe point it out that would help and i can try get some more *newer pix,better views maybe if you think it can help*

the site to mad information on pest control and diseases---------------->pest control + diseases information<----------------

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Try to get a direct view of that upper leaf, and do your best to get it in focus. It is sometimes better to take a more distant shot and crop it, than to take a close-up, where a camera has a hard time focusing, and shrink the picture for the web. Neem oil is the broadest spectrum insecticide, and is considered by many to be of very low toxicity to humans and I believe it is used by organic farmers. However, it must NOT be used in warm weather, so you would have to keep the plant in a cool house and low light for a few days after spraying.

[God.Jr]

well i think then i should look at the second method and chance the chemicals cause it's really hot here this time of season....well here are some more photo's , sorry but all i have is a crappy phone cam but i hope these pix will be of more help

although i'm starting to think that it may be root rot cause the mix under the mos there is very dark and may even be over old now. digging through the mos to check things out i can across a few old dead roots

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

There will almost always be a few dead roots if it has been a while since repotting, so I don't think that is an indication of anything. If you spray with neem oil, take the plant in the house and keep it in the coolest location you have for a few days.

[God.Jr]

well my flat is actually hotter than it is out side it's cooler out side with the breeze it has been at 30 degrees celc' for the past week or so so the heat here is just bearable my flat is generall 1 to 2 degrees hotter than outside *nice for winter,killer in summer*...... i think i'll go with the alcohol method mixed with a mild detergant but in the end it all depend on wats at the shop

thanx again for this help it is really appreciated,

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I think you should forget the neem oil until cooler weather sets in. The alcohol and detergent is probably better at this time. The problem that I have is that I can not figure out any desease that would cause those symptoms. At this point I am thinking it may be some cultural problem or the plant may be virused. At any rate, either of these will have the plant looking better if the cultural conditions are improved. Too much sun can stress a Phal, and if virused, bad symptopms start to show up. I would find a position outside for the plant that get no direct sun, just bright reflected light. If it is virused, it is not a big problem so long as the plant looks OK, you use sterile methods when cutting and repotting your plants, and you don't keep it growing up against your other orchids. Almost all orchid collections have a few virused plants, just because it is difficult to tell the virused plants from the non-virused plants. Then again, there may be something else wrong with the plant, we will just have to wait to see if anyone else has seen this before.

[God.Jr]

well i did a little research and compared with my plant and the only conclusion i come up with is the one cynthia just mentioned ........
virus infections

Types - Odontoglossum ringspot / tobacco mosaic
<-------- i think this is my problem
- cymbidium mosaic
Symptoms

- confusing to professionals & amateurs alike ....................*this is a symptom we are suffering from right now*
- appearance dependant on environmental factors (light & temp) and genetic factors (degrees of tolerance)
- appear as colour break streaking in flowers & leaves and as necrotic lesions

Virus-like symptoms in leaves include chlorosis, spots, dots, tip & marginal burns, scorching, water soaked areas, green and yellow flecking - They may be due to other causes
Transmission - aphids, cutting tools, old re-used media, unwashed pots,
Cure - apparently none, other than burning of infected plants.

wen i had a look at her this morning she seems to be havin another leaf that could be on the change *will be able to tell by tomorrow i think/hope*
and wen i looked under the leaves the edges all seem to have got a purple tinge to them. i had a look at the others and non of my other orchid show this symptom.

could this be a reault of nutrient deficiencies ....... as lack of phosphorus (P) -as a catalyst for flower production and root development
- deficient - stunted growth dark green leaves/ purple tinge

maybe all my plant needs is some fertilizer....i'm a bit scared cause it's some powerful stuff i'm only suppose to add about one teaspoon every 4 months, thing i'm scared about is i don't know wen it was last given food so if i add food and it is added to soon it could burn the plant right?

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Don't use a food that is good for any number of months. That kind of food is a slow release, and unfortunately, with orchids, the release is very undependable. And, as you see the problem, one never knows when the fertilizer is used up without a TDS meter. You want a fertilizer that tells you to mix it up in water (important) and give it to the orchid/plant on some regular schedule like once a month or every two weeks, but nothing on the order of months. I would not worry too much about previous fertilizing, as you will be adding only what the plant can use in a short time so you are not adding much fertilizer at a time. If your water soluble fertilizer is not labeled for orchids, reduce the strength from 1/4 to 1/2.

The purple tinge is probably just genetic for that plant and usually means nothing.

[prisana]

GodJr. Are you sure you didn't hose it down one hot morning and it happened to get the first few seconds of hot water splashed on it ? I once watered my plants whent the hose has been sitting in the sun... and I pretty much cooked parts of the first plant I watered. What about crown rot or bacterial rot .. pictures are still not very clear to me...I dunno..hard to say.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Rot is wet or has a wet look. The lighter sections mixed with the darker does not look like rot to me. The hot water idea may be a possibility.

[God.Jr]

well this morning i was digging through the medium to see if there mite be some thing that just doesn't look right.....

after pulling out all the mos i started to see those one two rotten/dead roots i mentioned a while ago,back in another reply/thread.....
this time i decided that i should try go even deeper than last time, next thing i knew she was actually comin loose from all the mos i pulled so i decided to try pull the whole thing out and have a look......... and wen i thought that the one two roots looked bad near the top, but there are a lot of really black dead lookin roots at the bottom, so i'm starting to think it may be a good idea to re-pot this orchid, once again i am sorry about the bad quality photo's but there is nothing i can do about it really, have to wait to win the lotto to buy a camera,

guess i should start playing the lotto then hey

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

The question, as to how healthy your plant is, is not how many dead roots it has, but how many good/living roots it has. Certainly, if there are a lot of dead roots, it probably IS time to repot.