Does New Growth= Happy and Healthy?

[~K8~]

I hope its OK to put a few questions in one post. I dont want to hog the board.

I am trying to get a feel of how I am doing.
I have had lots of new leaves and roots on many different orchids (Paph., Phal., Cym., etc) For example on all three of my Paphs. I have whole new sets? of leaves. Can I count on a spike? I guess my question is, is it possible for a Paph (or any orchid in general) that seems to be doing well (growing new leaves etc) NOT give a spike. Is lots of new growth that doesnt give off spikes/blooms common?

I bought a sorry looking Cattleya for $5. It now has a new very healthy looking root- does this confirm I am meeting its requirements?

A couple more questions.

I need to identify my plants. I really admire those here that know the exact names of their orchids. I would like to get past just Paph., Phal., etc. Is there such thing as an orchid key? Could I take pictures and we could play Name That Orchid?

I have what seems to be a very healthy Phal. I even have a new spike. Right now it is still in bloom. One of the blooms has been about 3/4 opened for 3? weeks now. The color is good, it feels and looks healthy it just wont open all the way- its stalled.

To clarify, the partly unopened bloom is the last one on an old spike (the spike that was present when I bought it in Feb.) I also have a new tiny spike.

Thanks so much, Kate

[PhalPal]

If an orchid is putting out lots of leaves and roots it is a good sign that you are giving it what it needs. However.....it doesn't guarantee a spike. If your orchid is overpotted (growing in a pot too large for it's current root ball) it will spend it's energy growing roots to fill the pot instead of giving you flowers. I find this to be especially true with cyms. It may also be growing happily but be too young to put up a spike.

If your 'sorry looking catt' has healthy roots - cheer!!! That is the basis for a healthy plant as I am sure you know. It may take a few growing seasons for this recovering plant to give you flowers but it is doing what it needs to do for now.

ID'ing hybrids is nearly an impossible task. You can post a picture and others might say 'it looks like this or that' but you will probably not get an exact ID. When I started out with orchids I had no use for the ugly yellow tags so I threw them out. I can't imagine doing that now!!! Keep your tags from now on and eventually you will have a nice long list of orchid names.

I dont know what is wrong with your phal!! (ignore my name - it doesn't imply excellence!) Did you move it or change it's position in any way?? Has your heater come on??? Three weeks is a long time and I doubt it will continue to open all the way, but consider what has changed in your environment.

AND.....there is no such thing as too many questions. Questions are what this forum is all about so don't apologize!! As someone once said, "the only dumb question is the one not asked." Ask away!!

[Undergrounder]

Kate the only thing i would add to PhalPal's advice is check that all your plants are getting enough light. The Phal stalling halfway through opening its bud is indicative of a change in environment, a shock of some kind or just not enough light. All orchids, but Phals especially can grow lots of green, healthy leaves and never flower, or stall or abort their flowers if they don't get the light they need.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by ~K8~

I have what seems to be a very healthy Phal. I even have a new spike. Right now it is still in bloom. One of the blooms has been about 3/4 opened for 3? weeks now. The color is good, it feels and looks healthy it just wont open all the way- its stalled.

There are a lot of reasons for buds shriveling and eventually dropping off. This may be what you are dealing with with your "stalled" bud.

But a stalled bud that isn't shriveled does happen occasionally, two ways: One way is that sap that formed on the stem "glues" the tepals together. This happens occasionally. Rinsing the bud with water when you water the plant sometimes helps it open, especially if you add a drop or two of dishwashing detergent to water and spray the bud with it.

The second way that buds don't open properly is less common. This happens when two of the petals are fused somehow-- this keeps the flower closed. Just a slight deformity in development. If this is the case, you can usually see it on close inspection-- there's no line of separation between two petals where there would be on another bud. I have had it happen to me once or twice, and when I finally figured it out, just carefully sliced thru the fused petals with a razor blade. The flower opened then, but of course wasn't perfect.

[mayres]

Some good comments here - just one thing to add that immediately came to mind when initially reading your post....
Good growth does NOT mean flowering orchids (unfortunately). There are many reasons for this and it might be best to deal with each genera separately. Often insufficient light may be the problem. Seasonal changes (or lack thereof) can also be a problem - say if you are growing with artificial light and do not change the environment much year round. The first year I grew complex paphs under artificial lights with no variation and got great growth but no flowers. I moved them to windows which changed the light duration and intensity with the seasons (and most likely got more temperature fluctuations as well) = actually less growth, but FLOWERS!
Generally your paphs should spike on each set of new leaves (fans) as they mature. This could happen any time of year at maturation or possibly at set times of the year - depending upon the genetics involved. Of course in controlled environments (like greenhouses) growers have learned to alter time and temperature to bloom many orchids just about any time they want. For most of us that grow in an outdoor or home environment a particular orchid often eventually gets into a seasonal routine of blooming at approximately the same general period each year - winter, spring, etc.

[mehitabel]

Good comments from everyone. Undergrounder-- what happened to "light doesn't matter"?

Mike, thanks for the comments about needing to expose some genera grown indoors to seasonal variations to get blooms. I knew oncids bloomed better when exposed to seasonal change. Did not know that about Paphs. Great information, thanks.

[~K8~]

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

Kate the only thing i would add to PhalPal's advice is check that all your plants are getting enough light. The Phal stalling halfway through opening its bud is indicative of a change in environment, a shock of some kind or just not enough light. All orchids, but Phals especially can grow lots of green, healthy leaves and never flower, or stall or abort their flowers if they don't get the light they need.

I bet you are right about the light. Believe it or not I grow my orchids in a north by north east window. Why? Its my only window with sun. I live in a canyon and am surrounded by steep hills and giant Redwoods. From early spring to late summer they get some direct morning sun then nice bright most of the day. It seemed to be working out. Right now we are getting very little sun.

I would hate for all my hard work and my orchids to go down the drain due to the sunless and cloudy winter. This was one of my original worries I stated in my introduction post.

I suppose I will have to supplement with some artificial light. 1) Is there such thing as a (growing) light bulb that I could put in my floor lamp or a desk lamp? 2) If not, is there a single small tube light that I could mount?
You see, I dont care to put up a giant hooded light contraption in my living room window. I think I just need little boost for the 8? weeks on each side of Dec 21st.

[~K8~]

To clarify, the partly unopened bloom is the last one on an old spike (the spike that was present when I bought it in Feb.) I also have a new tiny spike.

[Undergrounder]

Originally Posted by mehitabel

Good comments from everyone. Undergrounder-- what happened to "light doesn't matter"?

I don't know! Where did i say that? That's the danger of taking advice though... there are so many variables that there really is no one rule that covers everything. But i don't know of any orchids that don't like light! LOL. Actually those underground ones (Rhizanthella?) don't need light but i don't know anyone growing those.. heh.

Kate if its a fluorescent bulb, it will work. Those new ones will probably be fine, i have a few plants growing under those new fluoro bulbs.

Can you put it any closer to the window though? The light can virtually double or half within a foot or so of the light source. So even putting it closer to the window, or moving it to a better window can make a big difference.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

I don't know! Where did i say that?

Right here, in the Aerial Roots thread linked below-- just two days ago. True you made no reference to blooming, but lots of claims to growing healthy phals in "low to very low light", even 50fc.

posted by Undergrounder, 11/2/09, url for the thread is below: "I don't agree with you on the assessment of light, or indoor/vs greenhouse growing. I grow close to a thousand of them indoors, roughly half of these only get 300fcs of light from a single T8, a quarter get about 500fcs from two T8s and only a quarter get close to 1000fcs from a 400w HPS. I'm growing them wet all across the light intensity from very low to low. Temps range from a minumum of 12 in the winter up to about 30 in the summer. Humidity goes from about 50 to 80 throughout the year. And while its true that in high light plants need more water, its not true in my experience that wetness kills orchids in low light... i even keep a few trays in the kitchen which gets close to 50fcs when i run out of room in the basement, and sure they don't grow, but they certainly don't die or even lose roots. *So i don't think greenhouse or indoors, light or no light, makes a difference.* "

Aerial roots

[mayres]

As noted, one of the curly coiled CFL (compact fluorescent) bulbs will work for supplemental lighting for a select few plants - keep a few things in mind when doing this - You will need for the bulbs to be VERY CLOSE to the plants to get much benefit and also you will need to have them in a fixture that directs as much as possible of the light towards your plants - many of them can protrude beyone the deflection sides of light fixtures - which is fine when lighting up a room, but not good when wishing to direct as much as possible towards your plants. Also note that even a 100W replacement bulb (which are actually 23W) will not provide much light for your plants. I have a 150W or 200W replacement bulb currently on my phal seedlings and at about 18 inches away it only provides 300-500 footcandles - hard to believe, because when you look right at the light it seems blinding! Our human eye is such a poor judge of light intensity. I would suggest a bulb in this range but remember you will need to find a clamp lamp or other fixture that is long enough to stretch out beyond the tip of the bulb.

[Undergrounder]

Yeah I agree with Mayers about all those points concerning light.. if you can increase it naturally somehow, your probably going to get more light than you could sitting a single small CFL near it anyway. It's the kind of thing where you either get a dedicated grow area with a more powerful light, or you do the best you can with what natural light you have. Because either you're going to need to have a powerful light a long way from the plants, which would be very bright, or you'll need a less powerful light right on top of the plants, which might look a bit strange. I don't know... its a tricky situation.

And you're not even sure its light anyway, it could be other things people mentioned. Yeah.. hard to tell without a light meter as well.

mehitabel that was specifically in reference to the study posted in the thread. Someone in the thread thought that it was the high light used in the study that lead to the study's results. I was saying that i got the same results in low light, showing that the level of light didn't affect those particular results.

In no way was i saying that light didnt matter to orchids That's taking a quote out of context to the extreme.

[Brooke]

K8 here is a link to floor lamps I used to supplement my ESE windows when I displayed plants inside my house.

IKEA | Lighting | Floor lamps | LERSTA | Reading/ floor lamp

It will take a 42watt equivelant CFL which provides a significant amount of light to plants starved for light during the winter. We get many many days of no sun and with three of these in a 4' area, my long blooming orchids actually continued to grow.

You will need to add extenders to the lamp shade to direct the light down to the plants. Without an extender you lose valuable fc's sideways. Somewhere I have the fc's coming from the 42 watt equivelant and it is quite high IF you can extend the lamp shade. I made the extenders from aluminum foil.

Make sure your CFL's stay under the 60 watt limit for this light. Anything higher than 60 watts could be a fire hazard.

I found the information with the fc's available from the lamp with the extender and without.

Here are the results of the readings from a 42 watt CFL to determine the FC output.
All lights were warmed up for 30 min before measurements. The 42 watt CFL bulb is longer than the reflector on the lamp so an aluminum foil extension was made to extend the reflector 3" beyond the end of the bulb. Measurements were made both with and without the reflector extension.

One 42 w CFL bulb in a lamp style reflector. Measurements taken at the center of the cone of reflected light:

Distance from nearest point of bulb surface without extension:

0" (touching bulb) 8000 fc
3" 2300 fc
6" 850 fc
12" 280 fc
24" 108

Light level w/3" reflector extension:

0" n/a
3" 3850 fc
6" 1700 fc
12" 450 fc
24" 120 fc

Light from a point source with no reflector drops off as the square of the distance from the source. In other words, if you move twice as far from the source, the light drops 2 squared or 4 times.

The whole point of a reflector is to concentrate the light in a direction and thus reduce the loss with distance. You can see from the two CFL measurements above that allowing the lamp to extend beyond the reflector significantly reduces the light in the reflected direction. (it allows light from the extended bulb to go off in a wider angle). If you used no reflector, the results would be dismal.

I hope this gives you a way to add additional light in your living area without breaking the bank.

Brooke

[SamIAm]

The link to the lamp Brooke posted is rated for a 60 watt incandescent bulb, not for a 42 watt cfl bulb. A 42 watt cfl bulb is the equivalent of a 150 watt incandescent. The correct bulb for that lamp would be a 13 watt cfl, which is the equivalent of a 60 watt incandescent. A 42 watt cfl bulb would require a lamp that is rated up to 150 watt incandescent. I would strongly recommend that a 42 watt cfl not be used in a 60 watt incandescent rated lamp, because of the fire hazard.

Welcome to the board ~K8~

[tizzycat]

[QUOTE=Undergrounder;175900]I don't know! Where did i say that? That's the danger of taking advice though... there are so many variables that there really is no one rule that covers everything.
/QUOTE]

As we all inhabit different parts of the globe with differing seasons and climates, the advice is bound to differ, but if you check out the location of the "adviser" you will be able to decide whether the advice is appropriate for your own conditions.

[Brooke]

They put the rating of the watts used so people DO NOT put too high of a wattage for the fixture to over heat. The 42 watt rated CFL will burn cooler in the fixture than a 60 watt incandescent bulb. You use less electricity, thus the lower watts, but get brighter light than the incandescent.

You also get mercury in the CFL as you do with any flourescent but that is another issue.

Brooke

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Brooke

They put the rating of the watts used so people DO NOT put too high of a wattage for the fixture to over heat. The 42 watt rated CFL will burn cooler in the fixture than a 60 watt incandescent bulb. You use less electricity, thus the lower watts, but get brighter light than the incandescent. Brooke

Yes, cfl bulbs do burn cooler and brighter, but a 42 watt cfl bulb with the equivalent of 150 watts incandescent does not belong in a lamp rated for 60 watts incandescent. It is a potential fire hazard. They clearly state on cfl packages the cfl output, and what incandescent bulb it would replace. 13 watt cfl bulb=60 watt incandescent, 42 watt cfl bulb=150 watt incandescent. I have both the 13 watt cfl and 42 watt cfl bulbs, the 42 watt cfl bulb burns quite a bit hotter than the 13 watt cfl. You can touch the 13 watt cfl at the end of the day and it is barely warm. I would not say the same for the 42 watt cfl, it gets hot. I still stand by my suggestion to not use a 42 watt cfl in a lamp rated for a 13 watt cfl.

[PhalPal]

K8 it's also important to know if your windows have any type of sunscreen on them.

[SamIAm]

Well, it seems I have to eat crow ...I could not for the life of me wrap my head around what Brooke was saying. After posting my last response, I called the company I ordered my cfl bulbs from to ask if one could use a 42 watt cfl bulb in a lamp rated 60 watt incandescent. He replied...YES, since a 42 watt cfl is just that, 42 watts, which does not exceed the 60 watt rating. Had I known that one tidbit of information while I was researching the different lighting choices, it would have made the whole process much easier. I've learned something new today ...

[Brooke]

Since you prepared the crow, I'll bring the desert and we'll have a couple of together as we discuss our orchids

My husband made certain when we grew under lights we had the correct set up for the power we used. When I got the floor lamps I had to show him the package giving the info on the bulbs before I got the OK to use them.

The floor lamp/CFL bulbs add great light to a window set up particularly during the gray days of winter and it isn't too tacky although Martha Stewart doesn't visit me any more

Brooke

[11Orchid126]

There is no sun in a "north" window so if you get some sun it's probably a "northeast" window.

[~K8~]

Originally Posted by 11Orchid126

There is no sun in a "north" window so if you get some sun it's probably a "northeast" window.

"north"?
Oops! please forgive me if I misspoke. I did mention my "north by northeast" window. I meant my window is slightly more north than northeast. If that is the incorrect terminology for the correct direction of my window, I apologize.

[mayres]

I'm VERY familiar with those north by northeast windows! I've had my office orchids in window sills of that direction for about four years now. They get ZERO sunshine from about mid October to May. They work OK for phals and paphs though which continue to bloom every year....... I have a colmanara that has been there throughout this period too and it has slowly been withering as of late - blooms twice every year, but each successive psedobulb is ever so slightly smaller than the previous - I need to take it home for a year I guess and give it a long shot of nice sunshine or at least T5's?