Help!! Leo. Prince Phal with .5 roots left, made lots of mistakes :(

[Amirra]

I am an orchid killer. I suck at plants. My thumb is black. If the reason for leaning plants wasn't to absorb more sunlight, it would be to get as far away from my water-can hands as possible.

I tried to do my homework and research about this species "Phalenopsis"?

I have an orchid denoted with the tag: Dtps. Leopard Prince, white with spots and stripes (purple-y pink in color). I recieved it in june, it was in full bloom with buds. the flowers lasted for two more weeks and dropped. Spike cut to last node, waited, no rebloom. Cut spike away. I have had 2 new leaves since then, watering occasionally, missing some weeks. I fertilize weakly weekly or something like that with high nitrogen fertilizer. Two of the largest, oldest leaves have died in the past month. a third oldest is now yellowed and dying. death seems to creep up the plant.

I figured, time for a repot. So yesterday, i watered throroughly, got orchid with decaying spag out of plastic pot with drainage holes. ALL roots were blackened, squishy and dead. or dry and brittle and... dead. Rinsed and loosened all spag from orchid under cold/tempid water. removed decaying spag and roots. there is maybe .5 roots left that looked well. I did not expect to see roots fairing so poorly because this orchid just had a new leaf a few weeks ago...

I hate spag because it holds too much water for me to control so I switched to orchid potting mix with bark and white crusty stuff that an orchid specialist at lowes recommended. I did not put orchid back in plastic pot, but instead put it into an asian holey larger square pot with a trough full of rocks that water is supposed to sit so humidity stays up (if i understand the function right) the sides of the pot are riddled with holes. I put a layer of bark on bottom, held orchid while pouring mix around it. watered thoroughly. put it back in same place (north window)...

I did not use peroxide or cinnamon, unsure of how close to bulb to cut roots back, and after generally rinsing and cutting the dead off, I repotted with no sanitization and had not soaked the new bark before hand. (I read some tips on this site and think I made many mistakes, is it safe to repot again?)

There is one dead leaf and 5 living leaves on orchid. no stem. Bulb is ugly.

Should I repot again? this time rinsing and soaking bark and derooted bulb before putting orchid back into smaller plastic pot that fits root ball (or lack thereof)? The leaves are very large, so won't the orchid topple over?

I'm scared for it and don't want to kill it. My lovely fiance gave me this orchid and I don't want it to die like the ones I bought two years back... (i'm sure this part of the story gets old...)

Photos to follow. Thank you for this site!!

[englandfx]

well I will wait for the photos.

[mehitabel]

Amirra, Leopard Prince is a beautiful orchid, and your lovely fiance chose well.

I think you may not be quite the orchid killer you claim to be -- you recognized the leaf loss as a problem. Or at least, there's hope

There's no problem taking it out of the pot and re-doing it right. Trimming the roots is important, otherwise you have big clumps of decaying stuff down there -- ie bacteria.

You do need to trim the roots. Don't know what you mean by "bulb", but if there's a long blackened rootless stem, it's ok to cut that. In fact, I would definitely make at least a small cut on the stem to have a fresh cut for some root hormone.

After you have trimmed the roots, while you are soaking the bark, soak your phal, leaves and all in tepid water with 2 Tbsp sugar to a quart. This rehydrates the leaves and gives it a good start. If you've been losing leaves, your remaining leaves are under severe stress. If you can re-hydrate them, that gives the plant a better chance.

If you meant to say 1/2 of one good root (.5), your poor little guy needs some help. It would be worth it for a trip to Lowe's or HD for some Schulz root hormone powder and some Superthrive. That will cost you app $15-- less than the price of a beautiful phal, especially one with sentimental value. While you're there, you should also get a small bag of sphag-- why later.

Put 1 tsp of Superthrive in your soaking water. Also a *very* dilute bit of fertilizer-- a drop or two only. Just let your plant soak for an afternoon or even overnight.

Potting it up: I know you say you don't like sphag, but *fresh new* sphag, not densely packed, but fluffed up and barely moist is the very best stuff for new roots to form in. I believe it has rot inhibiting and root stimulating properties. To get the right moisture in the sphag, wet it, then squeeze it dry as hard as you can and fluff it up. That is heaven for rootless babies.

For rootless, take a tiny pot. Yes, *tiny*-- no roots, remember? You can prop it upright with styrofoam pieces, bottle caps, pot raisers. I've used them all. The one I believe the plants like best is the clay pot raisers. They're heavy, and they give off a little humidity for the plant.

When you're ready to repot, dip the cut end, and all around the stem and the 1/2 root with the rooting powder. Then put it in the tiny pot, half filled with bark. Put about an inch of sphag on top of that , set your plant in it, then tuck a few more strands of sphag around the stem. Prop it up if you need to.

Put clear plastic baggies around the leaves. I use two-- one on each side, leaving the crown open for air. Now put it in a place where it will get good light, but not direct sun.

Every couple of day, open the bags for air. A friend of mine re-soaks her leaves every few days by putting it *upside down* in a shallow pan (stem with hormone powder out in the air).

I just came upstairs from repotting some little guys from July. The ones that had been sitting in sphag with chips just at the bottom actually had the best roots. (vs ones that were all in chips). I believe you are correct that sphag may be hard to *grow* in, but it's the very best thing for re-rooting.

Others will have other suggestions for you.

[Amirra]

I hope the pictures help. If you want me to take some of the root ball exposed for better diagnosis, let me know.

[mehitabel]

Amirira, your last picture shows several leaves left. It was obviously a big plant. The good news is that the bigger and stronger the plant was and the more leaves it has, the better chance it has.

[englandfx]

well, um, based on the photos, your plant looks ok.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by englandfx

well, um, based on the photos, your plant looks ok.

I agree, englandfx. It's in great shape for a *rootless* phal, but it is going to be needing some new roots soon

[Amirra]

Wow, thank you so much for that explanation! I hope I can give this guy a better chance. and I used "bulb" because I did not understand proper terminology. Would root ball be correct?

You do need to trim the roots. Don't know what you mean by "bulb", but if there's a long blackened rootless stem, it's ok to cut that. In fact, I would definitely make at least a small cut on the stem to have a fresh cut for some root hormone.

When you say "cut on the stem". do you mean vertically up from the base of the stem/ root ball toward the leaf area? One cut? Scissors or knife? I'm afraid if I do one small step in this process wrong I'll kill the poor guy.

[Amirra]

And the clarify, both roots that show in the pictures are dead and hollow. It was a large phal to begin with and I hope I caught it in time.

[Amirra]

Strangely, the leaf on the bottom right, just above the yellowed leaf, is much smaller than its newer counterparts. Is that strange? Deformed?

[mehitabel]

Thanks for the whole-plant picture. It tells a lot more.

I wouldn't worry about the any leaf that looks healthy. Your pot is beautiful, but way, way too big. You really do have to get it out of there if your phal is going to survive. A too-big pot is a death sentence.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by Amirra

Wow, thank you so much for that explanation! I hope I can give this guy a better chance. and I used "bulb" because I did not understand proper terminology. Would root ball be correct?



When you say "cut on the stem". do you mean vertically up from the base of the stem/ root ball toward the leaf area? One cut? Scissors or knife? I'm afraid if I do one small step in this process wrong I'll kill the poor guy.

"Stem" = what the roots grow off of. (Leaves, too). Once the roots are gone, they will not grow on that part of the stem again. New roots will grow in near the leaves. So you can cut the stem, all the way across, where there are no roots. This removes some bacteria-laden junk from the plant, will leave an open cut for you to dip in root powder. DON'T make a slit upwards toward the leaves

Cut-- use a sterile razor blade to trim the roots. Sometimes the stem is too tough to cut with a blade. Then sterilize a knife or something strong enough to make the cut. You can sterilize with fire if you have a lighter or torch, or if not, at least dip it in a bleach solution.

If you use an un-sterile instrument to cut you can introduce infection, which will just create more rot.

[Amirra]

Sure thing. I have plenty of sizes at my disposal (mom gardens plenty). Going to lowes tonight. I'm very appreciative of these specific answers. I did read other threads with root ball problems, but I'm glad to have such specific help. Thank you!

Mehitable, thank you for the clarification, really helped too!

[mehitabel]

Your plant is still big and strong, Amirra. You have a great chance with it.

With a rootless plant, it's a race to get new roots on it before the last leaf goes. That's why the hormone powder and superthrive to start the roots sooner, and that's also why you soak and bag the leaves to make them last longer. The baggies keep the leaves in a humid atmosphere so they keep going longer.

Good luck! I hope you'll update on your progress with it.

[englandfx]

That smaller leaf above the yellow leaf does look rather peculiar. Looks like its growth was stunt. but at least the other leaves after it turned out good.

[Amirra]

Below are the current root status, the future pot, the soaking bark, and a pic of the current leaf status.

I do not have superthrive and hormone powder yet. Getting that tomorrow morning before class. but the yellowing was moving quicker up the second leaf. I just had so much to do for school since I posted.

What does the purpleing mean around the underside of the leaves.

[PhalNewbie89]

Purple is normal for some phals. From what I have read on here it is bsed on the coloring of the flowers...mine has quite a bit of purple to it. That pot looks much better for that poor phal. I just had to repot one I have in bloom because it just doesnt have the root system for the pot it came in.

[Amirra]

Based on the picture I just submitted of Prince's roots, how much of the stem should I cut off?

[Amirra]

Below is the stem after soaking the entire plant (practically submerged, leaves and all) for three hours and after the second cut. I also peeled off the yellow-black husks from the stem as well, to see if I would find anything green.

There are three roots remaining, and one at least looks and feels definitely viable. I read in the sphag and bag post on the newb section that if the orchid has at least one viable root left than sphag and bag would kill the orchid?

The white root was healthy, but there is a clear, squishy area with a small amount of black forming in the middle on that root, even though the rest is okay. is this root doomed now? Should I cut it?? I would have cut more of the stem like M. said, but the only good roots were right near the bottom.

Where do I get non-water soluble packing peanuts?

[Undergrounder]

The future health of your Phal. is going to rely completely on how many new roots you can grow.. the ones left might be able to give a little water while it survives, but they will eventually die as well. Forget rooting 'powder', but the superthrive would be a good root stimulant to use at a very dilute amount in your water.

I would avoid putting it in that bark mix. More than anything because anything i put in bark i kill. But realistically the phal. has so few roots it wouldn't be able to use the water in the bark anyway, and if the bark stays too wet around the base of the crown, you could get rot creeping up from the bottom. I would pot it in that ceramic pot you have there, but pot it in just very loose sphagnum and chunks of styrofoam for support. You can get the styrofoam from old packing material (like a new TV comes in) or they usually have heaps of styrofoam outside the back of fruit grocers.

Potting it in something quite loose but humid (like loose sphagnum/styrofoam) will be conducive for new root growth without being so wet it gets the crown rotted from below.

The new roots should emerge and start to help the plant in anything from 1 month to 6 months, over which time you will slowly lose a couple more leaves, and what new leaves do grow from the top will be very small. But over time, and with good light and water, it will recover and start growing bigger again.

[englandfx]

There is still a good chance to save this phal since it still has 5 leaves on it.

But I must say from past experiences when I first started growing phals, that anytime I had a phal with very minimal roots, it was a challenge to keep it alive, I had lost many phals that way.

You still have enough time for new roots to form before all 5 leaves die.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

Forget rooting 'powder', but the superthrive would be a good root stimulant to use at a very dilute amount in your water.

The new roots should emerge and start to help the plant in anything from 1 month to 6 months

Undergrounder, I would say that most of your advice is quite good. However, I disagree entirely with your advice to "forget rooting powder". I'm also puzzled by the reasons for your advice. What exactly is a) the harm you think it does, or b) is it that you believe it does not facilitate rooting? c) personal preference? Or is the expence of using it? For the benefit of people with less experience, it would help to make the reasons for your objection to it clear..

I use Clonex rooting get on cut stems and roots. I've used it on the growing eyes of catts, oncids, and encyclia, as well as on phals. I get new roots within 6 weeks. That's one/tenth of your outside estimate. I don't use the powder much, but that's only because I think the gel is better, not because the powder is useless or harmful. The powder is easier to buy and cheaper than gel for someone with just a few orchids.

Finally, you recommend using superthrive in the water to help roots form. How is the plant going to take in the superthrive with no roots? As stated, your advice does not seem well thought out. But perhaps you can clarify.

Creating unthought-out prejudices in newbies against useful products doesn't help anyone.

[lmartiny]

You've repotted it. Use a pot clip if it needs to be stabilzed so it doesn't wiggle. Find a a shady spot and then let it do it's thing.