Black Orchid: Fdk After Dark Trade Project

[jay]

The bigger seedlings were the first to wake up for me. They had a month head start for this growing season. There are only a few that got that big, even from the early risers. Most are much smaller. I am still happy with the growth this season.

As far as tips for the Catasetums. I believe that the best time to move them to S/H is when they start the new growth in the spring. I had one lose al of it's roots when I transplanted it after the roots were 6 inches or longer.

I actually move them as soon as I see a new growth. This way I can orient them in the pot in a way that they will have room to grow. I move them into cleaned and air dried LECA. I then wait for the new roots to "disappear" into the LECA. What I mean by this is, when I can't see the bright green/yellow tip anymore because it is deep enough into the pot. Then I start with a worm tea water, followed up by fertilizer water when it is needed.

Hope this helps April. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[mayres]

Great update Jay!
Thanks.....
With as many "babies" as you have given away its amazing how many you still have left - and they are so BIG too!
Looking forward to seeing some blooms in a few months!

[patticake]

Great update! Mine are more like your smaller ones! I'll up date soon...It's been a busy summer. I've taken good care of Frick and Frack, but they are more in line with your smaller ones. Those big ones are amazing!

[tocarmar]

I have been following this thread since I joined the forum!! I even went back & read from the beginning ( O.K. looked at pics)
Jay,
Do you want to sell/trade for a few of the seedlings??
I would like to try them!!!

[penangirl]

i just picked up this blog yesterday. i have become enamoured by catesetums the begining of this summer, i have 2 svo fredclarkeara;s one is a large 2 bulb after dark black pearl and one large 2 bulb after dark mo. painted destertx donna wise 'susan' remake which fred said could be larger and longer lasting than any other svo black orchid also he says it has a 33 percent chance of being all black. i also have a cooperi which bloomed yesterday.
let me know if anybody has any intrest in future trades. even though it will be a while until division would be possible.
this has been a interesting blog to read.
i also would be interested in purchasing some of those flasked seedlings.

one other thing, i spoke to fred about the honey dew/sugury substance and he told me that all catasetums give off this suger substance and it is nothing to worry about, just keep in mind that spidermites also deposit similar sugars.

[zuri]

I would definitely be interested in participating in future trade projects.

My very first FDK (the one I bought) has produced an interesting growth. What is this? Anyone? It's not a root. It can't be a root. Unless it's decided to suddenly produce rather massive roots... yes, not a root.

As you can see, it has an ant on it. Time to get out Brookn's miracle spray.

[jay]

Zuri,

Did you ever figure out what that growth was?

Nothing from mine yet. Down to 6 leaves though. Hope something happens soon.

[arleneg]

Hi everyone! I thought I should stop by and say . I've been MIA for quite a while.

Jay -- I saw your After Dark. It's much bigger than mine! But then, a few of Fergie's leaves got bent/broken. She took flight for the fourth...fifth time! LOL Great growing on those seedlings. How can I acquire one?

Connie -- I still have "your" bulb. It's doing nothing, but still green and alive. Email me your address, so I can send it over.

The update...

Fergie has a light yellow-green bump between the first few leaves..since late August! I know it's a flower spike fighting to break through. But it just won't! So it's been a waiting game. Every week I check, I had hope to see progress. Nothing. So send some vibes over to Fergie. Tell her it's time for showing off her beautiful flowers.

The new growth on the bulb I got from the trade with Sara (sruane) has grown a lot! Growth upwards has stopped. It's now getting plump. Since it produced a growth later than Fergie, it'll probably bloom sometime in Feb/March.

This week, I'll try to get pics of Fergie and her cousin, and post here for you to see.

Hope everyone is doing well!

[arleneg]

That looks like a new growth pushed downwards?

Originally Posted by zuri

I would definitely be interested in participating in future trade projects.

My very first FDK (the one I bought) has produced an interesting growth. What is this? Anyone? It's not a root. It can't be a root. Unless it's decided to suddenly produce rather massive roots... yes, not a root.

As you can see, it has an ant on it. Time to get out Brookn's miracle spray.

[zuri]

Flower spike? I didn't want to jump the gun on this, but it's taken on a new, promising, flower-like look. Multiple flowers to stem off this, or maybe it's going to be a single? No clue. Take a look!

[zuri]

Maybe Fergie needs a dip in temperature?

[rcb]

Zuri - that's definitely a spike, and yes you have numerous buds, all those little bumps in the center are very small buds. It will still take a while until it opens, but looks like you are well on your way.

Sorry forgot to say Congrats!

[zuri]

Yes! I've been celebrating ever since this thing came out, but didn't want to be so presumptuous as to assume that it was a spike. This is my first Catassetinae, so I had no expectations for getting it to flower. Needless to say, I'm thrilled!

[LouisW]

Great going!! Congratulations Zuri! Please keep us Updated! we have all been waiting for this.

[Ochin@]

How exciting, I can't wait, I can't wait, I can't wait !!!

[PhalPal]

That is REALLY COOL Zuri!! Congratulation!!

[zuri]

Thanks for the congratulations. I feel so lucky to have stumbled into this project, and to have a potential bloom to share on top of it all! (Now I just need to make sure I don't fudge it. )

Growth environment: on a south-facing porch, on the railing. Direct light until around noon, and then again after 5:00pm. Temps between 80 and 95 degrees on average in the day, and 85-70 at night. Lots of wind (so much that I had it wired to the railing!), and high humidity with these North Carolina summers (hygrometer read between 70 & 99 percent). Water every 1-3 days, weak fertilizer once a month. Plus it got splashes of rain whenever it rained. I left it outside until about the first week of October. It saw nights that hit lows of 50 or even 45 (or 40?) degrees, but averaged about 55-60. It is potted in a fine (but not too fine) bark. Right now it's in a south-facing, but porch-covered window in my office. Nights in the low 60s or very high 50s, days in the upper 60s or low 70s. I added a light and a shelfing unit this weekend.

Is there anyway to tell at this point if these are going to be male or female, or whether this a black flower or red spotted one?

Thanks again for the congrats, and I'll be sure to post periodic updates! Any advice on how to be sure not to lose these flowers?

[PhalPal]

I wouldn't worry much about losing your flowers! Obviously your orchids is happy; I would be more afraid to change something!

[dorothea]

congratulations! hope it's the black one

[rcb]

Originally Posted by zuri

Is there anyway to tell at this point if these are going to be male or female, or whether this a black flower or red spotted one?

Thanks again for the congrats, and I'll be sure to post periodic updates! Any advice on how to be sure not to lose these flowers?

zuri - These are a mixture of Catasetum, Clowesia and Mormodes. But from what I've seen, Clowesias are dominant in that you get perfect flowers (containing male and female) with the intergeneric crosses containing Clowesia a good bit of the time. Also your spike definitely looks Clowesia dominated.

As for color, looks too soon to tell.

BTW, is your plant still carrying it's leaves?

[zuri]

Plant still has leaves. One has yellowed but it hasn't fallen off yet.

To not change anything is great advice, PhalPal - thanks!

Dorothea, I admit that I hope it's a black one too

RCB, very impressed with your knowledge of spike morphology. You've given me some grounds to go image searching on google... or even through OrchidGeeks. I bet I can find spike pictures for the three genera mentioned. (My tag says Mormoides x Catasetum... didn't realize that there's Clowesia in there too.) Very cool. Thanks for the info.

[mayres]

Note ancestry is -
(Clowesia X Mormodes = Momordia) X Catasetum = Fdk
I've had such fun with this thread that I used it as part of a talk at my orchid society this past month!!! Thanks everyone! Keep it going! I'm as anxious as everyone else to see what color your flowers will be Zuri!
After my presentation a number of people wanted to know what color flowers Connie, Jay, & Arlene ended up with - I had to tell them - "stay tuned!

[zuri]

Thank you for the clarification, Mayres. This helps a lot. You're all so smart. Someday I'll know my orchids like you do...

[rcb]

zuri, just reread my post and guess I wasn't very clear - sorry have a head cold right now.

BTW reason I'm betting the odds with Clowesia morphology is:

Many Catasetums have erect spikes and female or male or hermaphroditic flowers. Spike usually starts at the base of the new bulb. Although there are exceptions. Donna Wise - a parent of After Dark is erect.

Clowesias are perfect (containing both male and female parts) flowers, and typically the spike is descending. Spike usually starts at the base of the bulb.

Mormodes are perfect flowers as well, but spike usually starts above the base of the bulb and the spike is typically erect. Mormodes also has a twisted column, but this does not typically come through on the intergeneric hybrids.

From everything I've seen when you cross a Clowesia and a Catasetum, you do typically get the perfect flowers, and the spike tends to be descending - indicating the spike habit of the Clowesia is dominant. What would happen if you cross it back to Catasetum enough times? Not sure. The hybridizing of these types is just not that old for me to have seen many.

With these types of crosses, Mormodes usually adds the color and/or intensity of color.

As for your spike, it looks to be descending, and just the way the buds are arranged on the spike as it is developing looks like my Clowesia x Catasetum crosses - so that is why I suspect you will have the perfect flowers.

Now have to add the disclaimers lol What I've mentioned above are the trends, there will always be exceptions - which btw is what I think make these so exciting!

[sruane]

I am now checking mine daily, but so far nothing...it still has all its leaves too. I hope you get black flowers as well Zuri (esp. since I have your backbulb growth!).

Sara

[zuri]

I know it'll still be beautiful even if it's not black... right? I don't want to be toooooo disappointed... but the fingers remain crossed.

Great information! Thanks for teaching me about the parentage. I've never grown any of these genera, and have not had a chance to observe their growing habits in any capacity... until now, and even then, my experience is rather limited. Thanks for sharing what you know. Very cool! (By the way, I'd love to see some pictures of your plants when they're spiking, so I can see what you're talking about.) Oh, and perfect flowers sound great

Sruane, glad that your bulb is doing well even if it's not making any big moves. That was a fairly small bulb I sent you, if I remember correctly.

Jay's bulb that he sent me produced a new growth that has lost its leaves. The new growth didn't get nearly as big as the new growth on my other one did. I think that's for two reasons: one, it started growing much later in the season; and two, it was grown indoors. Not as much light. But it's still doing well - and no signs of flowering on this one either.

[jay]

Congrats on the spike. I do believe you are the first from the group!

I just checked mine and it still has 6 leaves and drinking plenty of water.

I can't wait to see more updates.

[dtje2000]

Zuri, nicely done! You must be thrilled.

You've probably posted the age of your plant...can I ask again?

[PhalPal]

All mine still have their leaves and quite honestly I haven't looked at them very closely lately....a surprise would be nice but I won't hold my breath!

[zuri]

I think it's three, now four years old.

(Three bulbs when I got it, minus the tiny one that shriveled and died, minus one that I sent to sruane... plus a new growth this season, leaving two very healthy bulbs.)

Yes, four years.

[Ben G]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

Nope.
Nope.
Nope. Nope.
I am getting directions to the booth and walking straight to it. Right in, right out. Leaving the keys in the ignition.
That is, of course, unless I just happen to see a Phal Fantasy Musick or a cute little pink Dend like brookn has while on my way......

Its hard leave whitout more than one.

[jay]

Zuri, I can't take it any longer. Are there are any updates? I am so excited to see the first one bloom. Mine only lost one more leaf. Still have a ways to go. Although, it is still 80ºF here and that could be the cause of the late cycle.

[Schlyne]

I blame you all. I'll have to get in on this project in the future and I would definitely be in on future trades.

[Loki]

Just a bump to say thanks to everyone involved in the project - it's been riveting watching it all unfold.

[berkeleysgr8]

We want updates! *smile*

[tizzycat]

ooooooooooo yes updates please

[norris]

...yes, and pics too!

[PhalPal]

Okay no pictures ...but mine still have all their green leaves and show no signs of losing them just yet. No nubs or other exciting growths either. I have truly ignored them since July and they have been lucky to be watered once in a while. No fertilizer but they have had good light under T5's. It will be interesting to see what happens with mine.

[dtje2000]

Oh Zuri....where are you??????

It's been three weeks...we need a project fix!

[PhalPal]

Hey I did my best to offer you your fix!!!!! (sniff sniff) There is just nothing very exciting happening with the rest of us!
But I understand.........Zuri we need a flower!!!

[dtje2000]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

Okay no pictures ...but mine still have all their green leaves and show no signs of losing them just yet. No nubs or other exciting growths either.

This was a sell job? This was a fix??? hahahahahaaaa

Not your fault, Miss Connie...Zuri has an inflorescence!!!! Flower spike trumps 'no nubs', for sure!

[jay]

PhalPal, I am right there with you. Nothing happening. I have lost a few leaves, but no new nubs anywhere.

I do have two other Catasetinae starting spikes now though. Fingers crossed that it will do something soon.

[sruane]

Mine shows no signs of spiking. I lost 2 leaves finally but that was precipitated by a battle against spider mites and I have a suspicion that the leaves fell off a little prematurely due to the combo of washing the leaves with soap and spraying with pyrethrin over a 2 week period. The remaining leaves look good still.

[PhalPal]

But dt! 'Doing nothing' is all I have and I feel an obligation being one of the original three! One of ours MUST bloom and it MUST be black!!! However....anything from Zuri would be fantastic!

[berkeleysgr8]

Someone WILL have black blooms for sure! The odds are in your favor!

[jay]

Well my large bulb is down to two leaves, but no spike yet. I hope I don't miss another year. This thing is huge and should be plenty large enough to flower.

Zuri, I am hoping you are having better luck than me.

[Ochin@]

Zuri, could we have an update on that spike? anticipation is killing me!

[zuri]

Awww, hello guys! Sorry to leave you all hanging like that for so long... I've been busy and don't know where all the time went! The flowers started opening Monday and are now fully open, ready for their first photography session.

They're spotted. I'm mostly pleased as punch, but must admit that I'm just a wee bit disappointed. I think that's why I've held off posting the picture. The outsides of the flowers showed possible/probable spotting about 2-3 weeks ago. They're still stunning and look almost black from a distance. Got 10 flowers in all.

Thanks for your interest and support - and here's to the project! Can't wait for someone else's to bloom. This project reminds me of finding and breaking open geods as a child... never know what you're going to find inside! ... Now I just need to get Jay's bulb to bloom to get this adventure started all over again

[lmartiny]

I understand your disappointment. But it is still pretty. And.... it bloomed.

[jay]

YAY! The first blooms from our After Dark trading project. I am so excited for you. I am a little jealous too. My After Dark is down to two leaves and still nothing new starting.

If you have time I would love to see a picture of the whole plant to see what stage it is in during flowering. I feel I may have already passed my flowering window.


Anyone else get any spikes yet?

[Ben G]

[mayres]

Thanks so much for posting - don't be too disappointed - it is a wonderful flower regardless........

[evagentry]

It may not be black but it is still beautiful! Thank you all for keeping up with this thread, it's an enjoyment.

[norris]

Congratulations! I think you have a really cool looking flower there. Is there any scent?

[zuri]

Hello!
No scent to these. I snapped a quick picture of the whole plant. I think it's only lost one leaf - and that was... 2 months ago? (Compare to the little bulb jay sent me, which has gone completely dormant.)

mayres, thanks for the reminder that it's a wonderful flower regardless. it sure is. really, it's amazing. i showed some camera phone pictures to some friends last night and they couldn't believe their eyes.

[PhalPal]

Zuri that is one cool spike!!! Black would be the icing, but great flowers are still really perfect. One of us will have the elusive black.

Mine still have all their leaves. I was really busy over the holiday and haven't been staring at my orchids and really was expecting a big surprise....but Noooo-oooo! Still green leaves!

[zuri]

How about everyone else's? Leaves?

PhalPal, I know exactly what you mean. You think that by leaving them alone for a bit they're sure to finally grow up a bit and do something spectacular...

[benetay]

This is an amazing thread! best of luck to everyone!

Cheers!

[zuri]

Revision! The flowers smell amazing! Kind of like a chocolate rose... not sure how to describe it. Every other time I smelled them, nothing. It's noon and I just watered it and noticed this amazing smell that wasn't the BLC in bloom right now...

[jay]

If it smells anything like I remember, I thought it was like a cross of eucalyptus and mint. Not sure if they can have different scents like they have different flowers though.

Still nothing on mine. Down to one leaf and looking like it is ready for its nap.

[berkeleysgr8]

Gorgeous flowers. Really a stunning color combo. Sorry they're not black though. *frown* I wish you could post scents like you can photos! I would love to be able to experience that scent!

[PhalPal]

I have a brown leaf!! YEAH!!!!

[mayres]

LOL - This is the first celebration I've ever seen for a "brown" leaf!

[Undergrounder]

Congrats on the brown leaf!!

Although that's something i achieve with minimal effort...

[jay]

I am sad to say that I believe I have passed my flowering window again. This plant has to very large bulbs, but did nothing but grow a lot of leaves this year. Here it is today with no leaves. I have just stopped the watering and I am going to let it go to sleep for the winter. Not sure why it didn't flower again. I would get the stubborn one.

[PhalPal]

I wouldn't give up just yet Jay! Orchids are always surprising us and we really don't have much of a track record with blooming these guys so anything is possible.

All I have is the one brown leaf. One. Mike is right; every day I run to my Fdks and I'm disappointed all my leaves are green and growing! Dang.

I'll update with pics and measurements when all my leaves drop, which could be awhile at this rate.

[Aceetobe]

They can flower as late as Feb, so don't lose hope, thats def. blooming size. Fred lets his GH go to 55F in the wintertime, so perhaps a little nippy air will kick it into gear.

[sruane]

Mine are still super green and leafy. No signs of anything happening.

[HeatherAnnn]

Jay what kind of orchids are they? Are they Phals? That is the only kind I have, and I know I can keep it alive! I would love one that size!

[kid a]

you should go to the Sunset Valley website and read about the culture for these type of plants as it is quite different from the care that phals need

[Aceetobe]

FYI

I hadn't had any fredclarkeara's spike this season yet, and today I noticed that 3 were pushing out spikes. So....there is still hope for people.

[tizzycat]

sorry to be so far behind, just catching up again.

Zuri, that is a stunner, I certainly wouldn't be the least bit disappointed.

[ysanabria]

I'm new to the thread, I got my baby from Jay couple of weeks ago and I just finished with the 9 pages!! So much fun and a lot info!
I'm excited because tomorrow is the largest annual orchid event of the season and hence is billed as “South Florida’s Winter Orchid Extravaganza.” I hope that I just dont go crazy and I can control myself, big test for my addiction
Sunset Valley Orchids is going to be there So any good suggestions on what should I get from there will be great!!
I will post some pics from the show!!!

[jay]

Just talk to whoever is there representing them. If it is Fred himself, he is very knowledgeable, very nice, and very willing to share and teach. Tell him you are from Orchid Geeks. He is familiar with the following and our trade projects. Peter, aka MiniCatts, also works for Fred from time to time. He is also very nice, knowledgeable, and willing to help.

So, my recommendation is to come away with whatever you can hold in your arms.
They won't guide you wrong if you tell them about what you can offer.

[ysanabria]

Peter was there and we had a great talked. He say Hi!! I bought couple of beauties!!
I got a Clo. Rebecca northen "grapefruit pink", Morm. Ogneum 'orange'
and an amazing paph very dark!! Paph Cecilia Devine x Paph Satchel Paige!!
thank you