Black Orchid: Fdk After Dark Trade Project

[sandra]

I thought the bulbs were wrapped in some kind of netting. I'm just realizing they're not. Strange and interesting plant there....makes it even more exciting now.

[FLaCo]

Jay, you did an excellent job there man.

Can you please give me the website to the place you get your stuff? it was Firstray.com or something.

Another thing, what can you use to measure your fc of your light?

[PhalPal]

Jay it looks great! I have a lot of re-potting to do tomorrow; I have the batch from the species project and what I picked up at the San Diego show. Some I'm mounting, others will be potted. I am going to try to pick out my hybrid orchids from Jerry tonight and I'm also ordering some hydroton from him. I thought I could resist but really, get serious! It's just too good of a deal!
After our mountain hike today I'm beat; we'll see how much I actually get done tonight. I will post pics and names of the new orchids I bought in San Diego tomorrow.
There was still a little snow in patches and the dogs loved rolling in it. Last time for the season! We had the trail to ourselves and it was beautiful. Here are a few pictures taken with our new camera:

[PhalPal]

FlaCo I bought a light meter that measures in lux and footcandles. It has been the BEST investment I have made in orchid gadgets. They cost about $40 but well worth it.

[arleneg]

Sandra -- We're very excited about this whole thing, too! Can't you tell? That's the thing about Catasetinae family, new growth from mature bulbs grows rather quickly - about 6 months - and will spike/flower in late summer/early fall.

Damien -- It's firstrays.com. I get some of my s/h supplies from there, too.

Connie -- What a beautiful site! Thanks for sharing your hiking pics.

[jay]

FlaCo - it was FirstRays.com.

[berkeleysgr8]

This is very exciting! Count me in as one of those living vicariously through your orchid growing experiment!

[dtje2000]

Congratulations to the intrepid Fredclarkeara-kateers! For my own budding education, can you help me with some acronyms I'm seeing? S/H, MSU...and, uh, worm tea? I've heard of it (Dirty Jobs), so I have to ask if this is something you make yourself or do you purchase? I'm still SUCH a rookie at this...

[dtje2000]

Oh, your potting medium...they look like a snack food! Are they those clay balls?

[jay]

I think I walk by it every time I get up to check it for growth. I haven't seen any in the last 24 hours. lol

FlaCo - I just saw that I missed the foot candle question. However, the answer is that you can't measure foot candles on the Red/Blue LED panels accurately because they are not emitting the full spectrum that a traditional light meter will measure.

dtje2000 - S/H = Semi - Hydroponic. There is an entire section on this forum that discusses and explains how it works.

MSU - Michigan State University - They did a study on balanced fertilizers versus boosters (growth booster, bloom booster) and found that a balanced one used year round was better than switching back and forth.

Worm Tea - is basically worm pee. It has live microbes in it that help the exchange of oxygen and nutrients between the roots and substrate.

And yes, those are clay balls called LECA (Light Expanded Clay Aggregate) - These are used in hydroponics for their ability to 'wick' and hold the water and nutrients while still allowing for constant air flow to the roots. This air prevents root rot associated with keeping plants too wet.

Hope this helps.

[FLaCo]

Hey Jay, I actually needed a pic or a reference on where to buy one of these FC measuring devices.

[jay]

I got mine from Amazon.com. I just did a search for light meter and then looked at the options.

You could probably do a similar search on Ebay.

[PhalPal]

I got mine here:
Carsten's Orchid-Depot and Orchid Shop

[jay]

Connie - funny thing is I think mine came from the same place but was sold through Amazon.com.

[FLaCo]

I want to get one that is proven with you guys. Is this the one, "Light Meter LX 1330"?

[jay]

FlaCo - that is exactly what I have. I like it because it can register up to 20,000 foot candles.

[PhalPal]

Yep Jay we do have the same meter!! I like it because it's simple yet does everything I need it for. I was amazed at how many meters only measured up to 5,000 fc. I have found having one invaluable.

[Don1]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

Jay, Arleneg and I are starting a 'trade project' featuring a very unique orchid. It is from the Catasetinae alliance and 50% of the bulbs available today will be solid black, the other 50% dark spotted reds. There will not be a guaranteed black bloom for another 16-18 months and my suspicion is the price will go way up at that time. Here is the link to show you some possibilities of what our bulbs may produce:
Sunset Valley Orchids - Grower and hybridizer of quality orchids, Vista CA

We saw this orchid in bloom at the Santa Barbara Show; it was a stunning black color and smelled like eucalyptus. At $100 a bulb we didn't want to make any rash decisions, but none of us could stop thinking about it after we got home. ....and we were just ten feet from being out the door.....

Jay came up with the idea (or rather, it's his fault) that if three (or more) of us were to buy a bulb, the chances of at least one of us getting a solid black were very good. These plants grow pretty fast and best with two to three bulbs per plant. We are going to trade divisions with each other, eventually having one of each for a total of three.

I will be going to the San Diego show to pick up three bulbs for Jay, Arlene and myself. If you would like to LURK and just keep an eye on how our bulbs and trading progress, it should be interesting. If you wish to purchase a bulb and be part of the project, now is the time to jump in and I can provide you with details. Since there will be so few of us involved we will simply keep this one thread open, charting our progress and posting pictures. It will be a lot of fun to see what we end up with!!!

I would like to try to work with this project. It sounds like a plant that will grow well here in Texas. Count me in and let me know what is next.

[jay]

Don - if you want to join then all you have to do is follow the link at the top of the first page, or in your post, to Sunset Valley Orchids and order a Fredclarkeara After Dark bulb for $100. They are currently growing new growths that will bloom in the fall. After blooming they will go into dormancy and that is when we will all divide and trade with each other.

Let us know if you join and when you order your bulb.

[jay]

Mad Growth!!!

You can actually see this thing grow from day to day. I took a picture on Monday 4/8/08 so that I could compare photos week to week. Just for curiosity sake I took another photo today (Tues 4/9/08) and there is actually a difference.

Don't worry, I won't be posting pictures everyday, just once a week.

[arleneg]

Jay,

That's why enjoy growing my Cycnoches. I can see it grow every day. Think about it -- that new growth matures within 6 months!

It looks like it grew 1mm in one day.

[jay]

It actually grew from 4.1 cm to 4.9 cm. Overnight! I am definitely going to enjoy this.

Each little mark is 1 mm. The numbers are actually cm.

[PhalPal]

Jay I told you I thought mine had grown 1/2" in a few days!! It was very visible progress; I'm going to start measuring mine every few days.

[articuno75]

Wow. When they say vigorous growing, they wasn't kidding!!! Now I wish I had one

[patlee]

Jay, The division from Epiphyte--our Blc.Hoku Gem--grew like that. It was fascinating to watch. You just wanted to stare at it all day Wonderful way to pass the time...Enjoy!!

[PhalPal]

OK - finally got around to repotting and posting pictures! Jay how did you get your roots free of that moss in 30 minutes!!??? It took me HOURS! I mean HOURS! I thought I was pretty good at picking out moss but man Oh man this was neuro surgery. I soaked, picked, rinsed, repeat until 11:30 pm and I started at 5. I still did not get all of the moss removed but felt I was causing too much trauma to the roots and decided to stop.

I planted it in coir/dynarock/tree fern/charcoal/perlite mix and will grow it under T5 lights. I am working it up to my top shelf, closer to the lights to get it used to that much light. With the baby growth I think I will stop at 3,000 fc for now.

I'm keeping it very moist and will fertilize with something similiar to MSU every week. It doesn't look too mad at me today; time will tell!

[jay]

Connie - The 35 minutes was a constant neck breaking 35 minutes. It may have been a little longer than that and I just lost track of time. I will say again, I hate sphagnum moss.

Also, from your photos of all three in a row, of the 3, which one was yours? I think I have identified mine as the one in the middle, but was curious as to which one went where.

Your bulb looks great all potted up. Can't wait until we start updating with new photos.

Arlene - did you get it yet? Can't wait to see yours.

[PhalPal]

Jay my session of moss picking WAS almost constant and neck breaking!! I spent 45 minutes before I decided to try soaking more. I would do all I could grab with little tweezers and a toothpick, put it back to soak while I repotted another orchid and then pick it up again. I've never had such a mess! After looking at your de-messed roots I realized that yours are a little fatter and plumper. I had a tangle of tiny roots spilling down from the top and wrapped around everything below it. I've spent 30 minutes with a Phal before and thought I had the technique down. After breaking a few tiny root tips I stopped.

I really don't know which one is mine from the original picture. It might be the one all the way to the right; I think mine had the smallest growth.

Arlene got hers Wednesday, safe and sound. She's not going to want to repot now!!

[jay]

For comparison at a later date, I think I have figured out which one is which. If you go the post with the photos of them sitting in a row, this is the order

Left - Connie Middle - Jay Right - Arlene


I did this by looking at the old bulb compared to the orientation of the mini bulb and new growth.

I will be very curious to see how each of ours grows in the second week we have them since this will be the first full week we had them in our individual care.

I guess I will report back on Monday with a picture and growth detail.

[arleneg]

Connie -- You did a wonderful job repotting yours. I'm not looking forward to removing them sphag moss off of mine this weekend.

Jay -- I did get my bulb yesterday (Wed.). And, you're correct about mine being the one on the right in the pic above.

Anyway, I did take pics, but haven't downloaded to my computer. I only have so much time during the weekdays. Sometimes, right when I have just logged on here, I get called away from my computer.

I'll try to post my pics tomorrow, or sometime this weekend.

[PhalPal]

In looking at my pictures I realized I didn't get the little bulb in the picture. I'll post some new ones tomorrow so I can keep track of it's growth too.

[arleneg]

Aaaahhh...darn sphag moss! Around 11am, I started removing the sphag. Pick...pick...pick...damn...pulled off a good root tip. Pick...pick...pick...damn...broke a good root. A short while ago, I decided to give up. So there is a small amount of sphag left. That's fine. Oh well.

By the way, I did take a 45 min. lunch break. So the whole sphag removal process took about 2 hours.

Well, I'm off to put my Fdk baby in a new pot and potting mix (med. coconut husk chips/perlite/charcoal).

Since I have a few more to repot, I'll post pics later.

[jay]

I can't wait to see it. Right now I am trying to figure out how to merge two photos so that tomorrow I can post the comparison photos for one weeks worth of growth.

See you tomorrow.

[PhalPal]

Here are my Sunday 'check up' pictures. He grew one inch in a week!

Arlene I knew you would have a heck of a time with that spraghum! I have never seen a mess like that before, but he seems to not have skipped a beat. I was as careful as I could possible be with all those tender tips but did break off a few. So maddening! Looking forward to seeing yours potted.

BTW - Got your check; Thanks!!

[berkeleysgr8]

I cannot believe the rapid growth on these! So exciting to watch how this experiment will turn out! Still just living vicariously through you three. I'm not "expert" enough to spend $100 on an orchid yet!

[PhalPal]

It's great to have you berkeleysgr8! Lurk all you like!

[tizzycat]

Sandra, exciting is right. I'm really watching this space with bated breath.

Connie, Jay and Arlene, I raise my glass to you and wish your orchids good health

[arleneg]

Well, I tried posting pics last night, but gave up after trying to upload them on here. First try, each pic file was slightly large than the max. allowed. Second try, added a few links to my flickr site. For some reason, it won't show up. Third try....well, I gave up and went to bed.

I'll try posting again today, after I've 'resized' my pics....again.

[PhalPal]

Okay! Time to name our bulbs! Jay you have already claimed 'Little Freddie.' I am going to name mine 'Little Frankie.' Arlene? See a theme here??

[arleneg]

Little Fergie?

In a few minutes, I should have my pics posted. (fingers crossed)

[arleneg]

Here are my pics...

1st pic...arrival, 4/9/08; measured at about 2 3/4" tall
2nd pic...second measurement, 4/11/08
last few pics...repot, 4/13/08

The potting medium I used is medium coconut husk chips/perlite/charcoal mix. I repotted my bulb in a 3 1/2" size pot. It was originally in a 3" pot.

My Fdk baby is now sitting on the west windowsill of the master bathroom. The area it's in gets southwest filtered light.

[PhalPal]

I looks great Arlene! Little Fergie is cute; we need at least one girl in the band.

[jay]

Little Freddie update.

Here is after one full week. It is already obvious that my lack of humidity is slowing my growth down. Connie yours looks taller than the old bulb already, and Arlene yours is just about ready to pass mine up.

Well here it is with old photo for comparison.

photo 1 - first full day in S/H - 4/7/08

Photo 2 - taken today Monday 4/14/08

Photo 3 - shot of whole plant 4/14/08

[jay]

This time with photos.

Well here it is with old photo for comparison.

photo 1 - first full day in S/H - 4/7/08

Photo 2 - taken today Monday 4/14/08

Photo 3 - shot of whole plant 4/14/08

In case you can't see the ruler that well, it grew from 4.1cm to 7.5cm in 7 days.

[PhalPal]

Jay I don't think lack of humidity is slowing you down at all!! 3.5 cm is outstanding for one week's growth. Mine only grew 2.5 in eight days. The humidity has been between 30-40% in the orchid room this week; it has been really hot for April. (100 on Sunday!) I know that doesn't sound hot to desert dwellers but to us it's one in just a handful of days that we get to 100. Your bulb is loving Palm Springs.

Little Freddie thinks he is on spring break.

[jay]

Ok, Thanks Connie. I was having a hard time by just looking at the photos. It seems to be growing like a weed. It almost seems that I watering it every other day in the S/H. Now it has been hot, and there is a good deal of evaporation, but I am not doing this with all of the orchids.

[arleneg]

Jay

I agree with Connie about the lack of humidity not affecting growth.

It was hot here, too. We reached about 90F yesterday (Sunday). The humidity in the master bathroom has been in the upper 30% to mid 40% the last couple days. Fortunately, it was cooler today...about 70F. I'm not ready for the heat, yet!

[jay]

Arlene, I don't think I am ready for the heat yet either. On Sunday we hit 101F. It has cooled back off to mid 90's today and will be in the mid to upper 80's the rest of the week.

As to the confusion, I don't know what I was thinking. I converted inches to cm very poorly and thought that my "Little Freddie" was having troubles. I guess I am a little nervous and anxious with this one.

As far as watering, I had to water it again today. This thing needs water in S/H almost every day. The plants right next to it are not going through water this fast. It is also throwing a new root from the new growth. This thing is truly a weed.

And, on a side note, I just saw one on Ebay listed for $189. It is a little further along than ours, but still not a guarantee for a black flower.

Look forward to hearing about the other two.

[kmarch]

I'm so glad you guys are all doing this! It's such a good learning experience both for you and for all of the other forum members as well and I'm so glad this fascinating family of orchids is getting this much attention through this project.

3 cheers for all of you!!!

[Don1]

Thanks, Jay. I am new at this but really have enjoyed it so far. Not new at orchid growing and think a new plant might help my collection.

[PhalPal]

Jump on in Don1! It seems this is going to be a very interesting plant to watch progress. I can't wait for the first blooms! Let us know if you decide to order one. If you do just follow suit and post your arrival pics of your new baby.

What are you growing now??

[evagentry]

This is a very intesting thread guys, thanks for taking time to do all this posting.

[jay]

Arlene and Connie - I think this thing is picking up speed. It has already grown another 2 cm since Monday. Mine is almost as tall as the previous bulb, and I expect it to be as tall or taller by the next photo on Monday.

Don1 - Are you going to be joining us in this wild adventure. I hope so. This really is fun and exciting to see it grow this fast. I wish all of my orchids would grow this fast. Let us know if you join and when you get your bulb.

[arleneg]

Jay,

Since I bought my first Catasetinae, I've bought two more, then this. That makes it a total of four! I truly enjoy watching the new growth grow so fast within 6 months..then the blooms.

[arleneg]

OMG...I had just placed the ruler on the edge of the pot to take a pic, positioned myself with the camera and down the pot fell!!! I panicked there for a few seconds, especially when I didn't immediately find Fergie. When I did, I was relieved she was still in one piece. Whew!

I'm soaking some coco husk chips right now so she can be in fresh potting medium.

Next time, I'll have someone hold the ruler when I take a pic of little Fergie.

[jay]

Arlene, I can't imagine how you felt since I gasped and my heart skipped a beat when I read your post. I am glad that you found it unharmed.

I have been looking at Catasetums because I have been so fascinated watching this grow. I think I might find more of them in my collection some time.

[patticake]

I love this thread! A few weeks back I ordered a Cycnoches from the same grower as your Catasetum project. I love watching all of your posts because I believe the culture is very similar. My "bulb" is much skinnier, but the side growth is similar. I'll post some pics. soon. The blooms on my Cyc should be bronzie colored. I'm fascinated by this whole process. I haven't repotted yet, as the new growth has just started. I was waiting for the roots to start.(which they just did!) I had read not to start watering or repot until signs of new roots were seen. I'll do that tonight as it's Friday, and I can stay up later than usual! After reading the experiences that all of you had, I'm not looking forward to this! From your pictures it's potted in the same concrete... I mean sphagnum.
I hope you don't mind that I popped in on your thread- I'll start my own with pictures next time.
Good luck to all of you- every time I see the pictures of your bulbs, I go crazy! They're so much fatter than the Cycnoches.
Fred Clark was very nice to talk to also- He has some awesome hybrids.

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by arleneg

OMG...I had just placed the ruler on the edge of the pot to take a pic, positioned myself with the camera and down the pot fell!!! I panicked there for a few seconds, especially when I didn't immediately find Fergie. When I did, I was relieved she was still in one piece. Whew!

I'm soaking some coco husk chips right now so she can be in fresh potting medium.

Next time, I'll have someone hold the ruler when I take a pic of little Fergie.

Don't give me a heart attack!!! This is better than any soap I've ever watched!!! Whew!

And the drama continues......

[arleneg]

Patti -- I, too, have a Cyc. And, yes, the bulb is taller and skinnier. Which Cyc. do you have? Have fun with removing the 'concrete'.

Jenny -- I almost cried in that few seconds. Oh, my heart was beating rather fast, too...had to calm myself and Fergie.

Yes, the drama of accidents continue. Now, it's not only the Dens, but also the Catasetums. LOL

[patticake]

Originally Posted by arleneg

Patti -- I, too, have a Cyc. And, yes, the bulb is taller and skinnier. Which Cyc. do you have? Have fun with removing the 'concrete'.

Jenny -- I almost cried in that few seconds. Oh, my heart was beating rather fast, too...had to calm myself and Fergie.

Yes, the drama of accidents continue. Now, it's not only the Dens, but also the Catasetums. LOL

My Cyc. Is Cyc. cooperi 'SVO III' FCC/AOS x Cyc. Jean E. Monnier '#2'
It sounded like a great cross. I'm gonna go pluck some sphag., now...

[jay]

Patticake - Participating in this thread has spiked my interest in the whole Catasetinae group of orchids. I can't wait to see pictures of your Cycnoches. I think I will be buying more soon.

[arleneg]

Patti -- I almost bought a Cyc. cooperi, but went for a Cyc. barthiorum. I have two that I'm experimenting with. Supposedly, you can produce a male or female blooms depending on how much light it's getting. I'm going to try produce both.

Jay -- I can hardly wait to see what you'll buy next.

[Jirel]

This is so fun! Ditto on the thanks for doing this project and posting it here on the forum.

[PhalPal]

The growth on these bulbs is amazing! Depending on the angle, Little Frankie grew about 2 inches in a week. (the pic with the light background is from last week) The root growing over the smaller bulb is new this week also. I can't wait to see what the next month will bring.

[arleneg]

Connie,

Today, I thought about measuring my Fergie and taking a pic while I measure. With the mishap the other day, I'm afraid to! I'll try tomorrow. Maybe I'll have the guts to.

Yours sure got taller than the bulb. The new growth on mine is the same height as the bulb.

[Greenhouse Gal]

WOW! These things grow like magic beans! This is really fun to watch. Thanks for posting.

[jay]

Here it is again. Since last week it has grown nearly another 3 cm. It has also started 3 new roots. I have to water this thing every day. It is in S/H, and the reservoir is nearly empty every afternoon. The plants right next to it, 2 Neos, 1 Onc. Twinkle, 1 Phrag. Jason Fischer do not go through this much water.

Picture 1 - Week 1 (4/7/08)
Picture 2 - Week 2 (4/14/08)
Picture 3 - Week 3 (4/21/08)
Picture 4 - Week 3 without ruler.

[jay]

Connie - Your Little Frankie looks great! It is growing so fast. I'm with you wondering what the next month will be like if we have seen this much growth in a couple of weeks.


Arlene - I understand your hesitation, I nearly had a heart attack reading your post last week. I look forward to seeing your update.

As for the size variation, I think that they seem drastically different because it is still in the beginning of the season. My bet would be that they are all very similar in size and timing with flowering by the end of the summer.

[jay]

Ok, so I think I may have gone off the deep end!

Connie was kind enough to give me a little push, so I am going to San Diego on Sunday to pick up a flask of Fredclarkeara After Dark that is ready to de-flask. It has the same Mo. Painted Desert parent but a darker and more floriferous form of Ctsm. Donna Wise than the previously awarded After Darks.

I will post pictures when I am back tomorrow.

[PhalPal]

Jay I'm so happy for you!!! I can't wait to see them!

And really guys....it didn't take much of a shove at all. I just needed to repeat what he was already thinking!

[articuno75]

Oh wow. How many are in a flask and what are the odds of getting black ones? This is neat.

Darn, I so need to save in my orchid fund jar!

[tizzycat]

Great Stuff. I enquired about getting one sent to the UK, but Fred Clark does not ship orchids overseas. He did say he could send flasks, but the DEFRA people are pretty strict and it works out very expensive.

[jay]

I'm back with the new 'chids. I started a new thread so I don't clutter this project thread.

Here it is. 30 new orchids.

[jay]

Weekly Update -

Well little Freddie has put his foot down on the accelerator!

Previous Measurements:
Week 1 - 4.1 cm
Week 2 - 7.4 cm
Week 3 - 10.2 cm
Week 4 - 16 cm

Week 1 was actually the first day that I had it in S/H, so the growth is from 4.1 cm to 16 cm in 21 days! I'm not sure if dandelions grow this fast.

First two photos are for measurement, third is so that you can see it without the dumb ruler in the way.

Thanks for watching.

[berkeleysgr8]

I want one... I want one... I want one! Maybe one of these years when I feel like I'm experienced enough to try something more expensive. The growth is truly impressive on these plants!